AW: AW: Re:Sound Quality

Hi Paul,
ok, I try to be more specific: My main latency concern is recording with
plug-ins. I often run into the situation to have a nearly finished mix but
there's something missing. So I have to record again.
With native systems this situation needs workarounds with TDM not.

Kind regards

Mark


Am 15.01.2009 7:05 Uhr schrieb "Paul Najar" unter <[email protected]>:

> 
> On 15/01/2009, at 10:43 AM, Mark Ziebarth wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jan and Bryan,
>> as this list and the slightly decreasing number of posts shows, the
>> days of
>> the winning connection of Logic and TDM in „Logic TDM‰ seem to be
>> long gone.
>> Four years ago I had to decide which way to go: Logic or Pro Tools
>> TDM.
>> First I decided to go the Logic way but after a year I missed TDM a
>> lot,
>> especially the latency problem of a native rig was painful for me.

> 
> Mark, this is not just directed at you but at the thread in general -
> but I've quoted you because it's a good example of what I'm about to
> say.
> 
> This word "latency" - the thing that it is, comes in many shapes and
> sizes. So IMO to just use this word without any further explanation
> doesn't honestly give an indication of what is being referred to.
> 
> There's "round trip" latency which can become an issue when recording
> a live performer/s. The two sub categories here (where latency is
> concerned) are recording through an analog signal path and no plugins
> OR recording through some analog path and digitising and then doing
> further processing with plugins before recording.
> 
> Using sub group 1 there has been little or no tangible latency benefit
> by using TDM for at least 4 years because for at least this long
> there's been decent native audio hardware that yields less than 3ms
> latency while recording 16 tracks at once - maybe even more. And of
> course the native latency bar has been raised even further with newer
> native hardware like Apogee Symphony.
> 
> Just to put this in context, I have seen many a debate over what is
> regarded as acceptable latency for a live performer and the vast
> majority of views I've seen expressed (and my own view) suggest that
> around 3ms or lower is perfectly acceptable and  even verging on
> undetectable.
> 
> Sub group 2 (recording with plugins) TDM still has an advantage over
> native and I guess it always might. OSX was meant to offer native
> improvements in this area but I've not seen it. Plugin processing
> delays are still at OS9 levels based on my experiences.
> 
> Then there's a second kind of latency I call "half of round trip"
> latency which occurs when triggering a virtual instrument from a midi
> controller. Since TDM has never been a viable platform for MOST VI's
> to run in (or there would be more TDM VI's) - there is no comparison
> here.
> 
> There is also a third type of latency that occurs when trying to use
> analog hardware via inserts to digital recorded tracks - often when
> mixing. TDM will win here - but does this really matter? When mixing I
> don't care how much latency the system runs with just as long as it
> keeps everything in phase accurate time - but that is a function of
> the software, not the hardware.
> 
> So there you go. IMO not all latency issues are deal breakers or
> unworkable - so it's much more informative when referring to it to be
> specific. And for the record I don't think there's any TDM sound
> engine or summing benefit over native Logic. If there is a difference
> it comes down to quality of converters and the fact that up until
> about 4-5 years ago there were far more high quality TDM plugins
> available. That's not the case now.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> Paul Najar
> Jaminajar Music Production
> www.jaminajar.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
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> 

-- 
Mark Ziebarth
Mühlenkamp 12 d
22303 Hamburg
Telefon:
++494027800926 (Studio)
++491733135456 (mobil)
++494065055216 (Fax)



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