Re: Re: Sticking point

Ron Jeffries wrote:


> On Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 4:08:27 PM, Bill Walton wrote:
>
> > As I said, I agree re: two-sided models.  The gist of your model seemed
to
> > me to be that you see value definition, value production, and management
as
> > all being a combination of technical and business.  That led me to
believe
> > you were saying everyone should contribute to all discussions.  I don't
see
> > how that model improves the discussion.  If I'm missing it, please
continue
> > and I'll keep trying.
>
> I would hope that we would agree about the following two notions:
>
> 1. Business impacts technical and vice versa. Some business ideas are
expensive
> or impossible technically. Some technical opportunities make for business
> opportunities, both in the large and in the small.

Agreed.  Thus my interest in the adoption of XP / Agile practices in the
business-at-large.

> 2. Technical people make about a zillion decisions every day. Most of them
> impact product quality and/or time to delivery. The more they understand
about
> the business reasons behind their work, the better they make those
decisions.

We're not talking about technical decisions here.  As I wrote to Charlie
earlier, "From inside the [project team] bubble there are technical and
business issues.  From outside the bubble, to a manager of managers, there
are technical and business issues too.  Everything inside the bubble is
technical.  The stuff outside the bubble is business.  Bubbles within
bubbles.  Patterns."  I encourage the technical side to help identify
patterns they see emerging in the discussion of the business side that may
have analogs in the technical, project-centric world.

> Therefore, the more representation from both sides we have in the
discussions,
> the more effective the decision making will be on both sides. And the more
rapid
> will be the information transfer.
>
> Does that make some sense?

The information transfer I think the XC list is concerned with may be
different than what you're looking for.  You seem to be looking for a
transfer between the business side and the technical side.  I think we're
interested in more in transfers between various business-side participants
about business-side stuff.  To use the bubble analogy, it looks like we now
have the problem space well partitioned; the XP list deals with the stuff
inside the bubble, the xpA list deals with bubble boundary, and the XC list
can deal with the stuff outside the bubble.  Or perhaps, as Charlie posits,
that's not a good partitioning.  Maybe the bubble thing's not such a good
metaphore.  Maybe that's what we've been lacking; a good metaphore.  What do
you think?

Bill


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