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Il 11/10/2016 20:54, Robin Dymond [email protected]
[extremeprogramming] ha scritto:
>
> Hi Massimo,
>
> I ran into Prince in Europe when working there in 2009-2012, it is not
> used much or well known in North America. Here we have the PMI and the
> PMP certification, and their PMI-ACP (Agile Certified Practitioner)
> certification. PMI-ACP is a wide and thin overview of frameworks (XP,
> Scrum, DSDM, etc) and Agile.
Yes, born in UK government side and exported in North-Europe, Canada and
Australia also if they say it is used in about 50 countries.
>
> I do not know Prince2-Agile, however, it sounds like we have the same
> issues, just a different waterfall certification vendor.
I didn't use it, I just received the updated when they delivered in
2015, just as a reference and give you a quick idea this in my opinion
is the most clear page succinctly describing it:
http://prince2agile.wiki/An_Overview_of_PRINCE2_Agile
>
> General Project Management has some good skills to learn, like
> stakeholder management, figuring out agreements that work for both
> sides, being organized and procurement. Most of the other "skills" are
> not needed when moving to an Agile framework. Instead different skills
> are valued, people skills such as coaching, mentoring, conflict
> resolution, team work and collaboration skills. Technical skills, well
> too many to list.
>
> When I train PMs in Scrum I tell them very clearly that there is no
> project manager in Scrum. Then we write down all the things PMs do
> today and we figure which role will do them in Scrum, PO, SM or Team.
> I do mention that when doing large scale Agile with many teams we
> sometimes have PMs who help us coordinate events, however there are
> few of these roles.
>
> So they need to change, and I recommend they "try on" a new role for a
> while, and not be forced into a role. Making all the PMs Customers/POs
> or making them all Agile Coaches/SMs does not work, and maybe some
> would be more effective on the team. In either case there are likely
> large gaps in knowledge and behavior that need to be overcome for
> people to reach their potential in Agile.
>
> I think what we are seeing is the Prince org and the PMI trying to
> stay relevant, and continue to make their constituents feel like they
> have a special place in delivery, instead of helping them find a new
> way to work and behave. This is causing problems, and will continue to
> do so until companies kill the demand for these roles. In one US based
> insurance company on their second attempt at going Agile they laid off
> all the PMs and then opened new positions like Scrum Master and
> Product Owner, and the PMs could apply for those roles, but would have
> to compete for them. It was enough to get people out of their PM
> comfort zone and thinking about how to change.
>
> I expect we will spend another decade dealing with faux Agile
> adoption. Coddled monopolistic markets such as financial services will
> struggle the most. Competitive Darwinian markets will evolve faster.
> So if you don't want to deal with faux Agile, focus on working with
> businesses that are well positioned and have steady pressure from a
> variety of competitors.
I totally agree, thanks for your opinion.
>
>
>
>
> Robin Dymond, CST
> Managing Partner, Innovel
> www.innovel.net <http://www.innovel.net>
> www.scrumtraining.com <http://www.scrumtraining.com>
> Direct: (804) 239-4329
> twitter: @robindymond
> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond>
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Massimo Manca
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> [extremeprogramming] <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Il 11/10/2016 07:51, Robin Dymond [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> [extremeprogramming] ha scritto:
> >
> >
> > Hello Massimo,
> >
> > The article linked is not from a scrum alliance trainer. Anyone can
> > submit an article to the scrum alliance for posting. No idea how
> this
> > one got past the reviewers, probably because the staff are mostly
> > event planners and support staff, not trainers and coaches, we
> are all
> > free range. I don't know if it will be removed, however I think it
> > does not belong on that site.
> Hello Robin, I know what happened because I am following the thread on
> LinkedIn and I start the thread here to share what is happening.
> About the author you wrote what scrumalliance wrote but he results
> to be
> a "certified SCRUM master" so I think for this reason there was no
> control on his article:
> https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/profile/pmude
> <https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/profile/pmude> but this is my
> personal feeling.
>
> I also use agile methods and processes since '90s (starting with lean
> methods in a factory and then in R&D department) experimenting, doing
> right and wrong things and so on. But seems to me recently things are
> going worst and there are many signals I receive from collegues
> working
> with companies from India and Brazil so I shared these info with
> the group.
>
> If you know Prince2 and Prince2-Agile I would know what you think
> about
> them if you think them real agile project management processes and
> eventually why.
>
> I personally used Prince2 because was required in some tenders I
> participate and I don't feel it agile at all. I feel Prince2-Agile
> just
> a way to make-up Prince2 to say "hey guys, it is agile you don't
> need to
> migrate to SCRUM and others" because anyway training and
> publications is
> a single company (participate by UK government) business.
> But I may be wrong and I would like to hear more opinions on them.
> >
> > If you want to read what trainers and coaches are saying read the
> > comments, which are highly critical and go on far longer than the
> > article, look for CST or CEC in their handle.
> >
> > Also would like to point out that there are CSTs like myself who
> have
> > been on this list (and many others) for a decade. Thanks to the
> > efforts of numerous people here the Scrum Alliance offers technical
> > training in TDD, CI, pairing, refactoring, etc, sometimes taught by
> > people on this list. It is also by far the hardest training to sell,
> > as developers would rather learn a new tool (ie swift, aws, oracle)
> > then learn to test drive their code.
> I know also if I have a personal opinion about trainings and
> certifications. I think that we could say an agile process is really
> agile when we don't need to follow a real training. I mean that a
> short
> printed guide, a set of use cases and a set of exercises/simulations
> would be more than sufficient to start. Of course you may say that
> it is
> not very far from to follow a training... but take it as a general
> thought.
> About certifications: I think before to train others, trainers would
> need to apply for several years, in Europe there are too many
> certified
> agile trainers (I don't speak only about SCRUM) that really have
> little
> to do and to share ending with solutions and examples not far from the
> scoreboard.
> >
> > My opinion is the article is a POS, and certainly does not represent
> > the opinion of any agilists who I know and respect.
> >
> > Any change effort suffers from relabelling, where people attach the
> > new labels to old roles and behaviors. We see this often in Agile
> > adoption. Learning new behaviors is hard and takes time. It
> often also
> > requires structural changes to the organization. Most of the hard
> > changes needed, like eliminating silos (ie separate testing
> dept) have
> > little to do with XP. They are organizational design problems that
> > stem from legacy structures and mindset, like those on display
> in this
> > article.
> >
> > Robin Dymond, CST
> > Managing Partner, Innovel
> > www.innovel.net <http://www.innovel.net> <http://www.innovel.net>
> > www.scrumtraining.com <http://www.scrumtraining.com>
> <http://www.scrumtraining.com>
> > Direct: (804) 239-4329
> > twitter: @robindymond
> > Linkedin:https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond>
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond>>
> >
> > On Oct 10, 2016 8:01 AM, "Massimo Manca
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>[extremeprogramming]"
> > <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
> > There are other funny folks promoting Prince2 and Prince2-Agile
> as agile
> > project management processes.
> > I used Prince2 in the past because in UK and West Europe is a common
> > requirement in public tenders but I didn't see any agility in
> it. They
> > just write down how to organize and manage a project with the
> lesson of
> > the "old school" and maintaining a hierarchical structure.
> > Instead I know Prince2-Agile only because when was published I
> received
> > the booklet. Seems to me an old "command and control" PM over
> SCRUM so
> > is a heavier SCRUM defining much more roles and using stages and
> > milestones to control the project status.
> > I am interested also to hear comments on them.
> >
> > Il 10/10/2016 03:01, Charlie Poole [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > [extremeprogramming] ha scritto:
> > >
> > > I particularly enjoyed this...
> > >
> > > > The Agile Scorecard is a reflection of disciplined "Agile
> values"
> > >
> > > The author was quite right to put "Agile values" in quotation
> marks,
> > > apparently wanting us to understand that this is a parody, or
> so one
> > > can only hope. :-)
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Massimo Manca
> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> > > [extremeprogramming] <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>
> > <mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > I think you have LinkedIn profiles as me, so may be you
> already read
> > > these things but in the last couple of days happened that several
> > > trainers published articles about agile processes introducing
> measures
> > > and artifacts having nothing to do with agile.
> > >
> > > This is the link to the worst one published by
> scrumalliance.org <http://scrumalliance.org>
> > <http://scrumalliance.org>
> > > <http://scrumalliance.org> (but I
> > > know it because I found a post on LinkedIn).
> > >
> > >
> https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2016/october/the-agile-scorecard?feed=articles
> <https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2016/october/the-agile-scorecard?feed=articles>
> >
> <https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2016/october/the-agile-scorecard?feed=articles
> <https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2016/october/the-agile-scorecard?feed=articles>>
> > >
> <https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2016/october/the-agile-scorecard?feed=articles
> <https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2016/october/the-agile-scorecard?feed=articles>
> >
> <https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2016/october/the-agile-scorecard?feed=articles
> <https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/articles/2016/october/the-agile-scorecard?feed=articles>>>
> > >
> > > There is also this post about a way to manage projects in a way
> > > that is
> > > a mix of agile and old fashion project management:
> > >
> > >
> https://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6190710412472827904&goback=&trk=hb_ntf_REPLIED_TO_YOUR_COMMENT
> <https://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6190710412472827904&goback=&trk=hb_ntf_REPLIED_TO_YOUR_COMMENT>
> >
> <https://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6190710412472827904&goback=&trk=hb_ntf_REPLIED_TO_YOUR_COMMENT
> <https://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6190710412472827904&goback=&trk=hb_ntf_REPLIED_TO_YOUR_COMMENT>>
> > >
> <https://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6190710412472827904&goback=&trk=hb_ntf_REPLIED_TO_YOUR_COMMENT
> <https://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6190710412472827904&goback=&trk=hb_ntf_REPLIED_TO_YOUR_COMMENT>
> >
> <https://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6190710412472827904&goback=&trk=hb_ntf_REPLIED_TO_YOUR_COMMENT
> <https://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6190710412472827904&goback=&trk=hb_ntf_REPLIED_TO_YOUR_COMMENT>>>
> > >
> > > I think we could discuss a little bit about these facts and
> trying to
> > > understand why happened.
> > > Do you agree?
> > >
> > > Massimo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
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Posted by: Massimo Manca <[email protected]>
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