Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?

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Hello, James,

> On Dec 4, 2019, at 6:44 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> I'm always fascinated by folks who look at the corrupt, burning garbage =
heap that is Scrum Certification and think, "I want that, but for developme=
nt practices."

I pay a lot of attention to Scrum and its works and pomps, and I wouldn't =
characterize it that harshly. I'd like to have something that popular for d=
evelopment practices. Scrum is often executed very poorly, but it is well k=
nown. In the dev practices area, we have almost zero coverage compared to S=
crum.=20

As for certifications, I am opposed to them, unless they have actual meat.=
 See the Agile Alliance policy statement on certifications. They do have on=
e major advantage, however: they sell training. It's easy to be cynical abo=
ut selling, but if we can't get people learning our ideas one way or anothe=
r, we can't help them.

An issue with Scrum certifications is the apparent distance between "certi=
fied scrumMASTER" and mastery, which may or may not actually be confusing t=
he market. I suspect it does not, because I don't believe any reasoning bei=
ng thinks two days of training makes a master of anything. The real bug, I =
suspect, is that the CSM course went on for years and years without any rea=
l effort to make clear that it was the beginning, and without providing lea=
rning material for moving beyond the two days. Now, both Scrum Alliance and=
 scrum.org <http://scrum.org/> have begun to push additional learning, whic=
h is a good thing. Possibly too little, too late.

I do believe, however, that the average Scrum "installation" is, if not Da=
rk, at least Dimming, not delivering what it could for the organization, an=
d quite often making the lives of the people at the code face worse. I also=
 believe that the practices and understanding of what was called XP can hel=
p developers with that, if only we could reach them.

One would hope that whatever people do today would include some learning f=
rom the Scrum situation, to avoid as many of the problems as possible. That=
 said, good ideas get watered down, often to the point of turning rotten. T=
hey always have, and, I fear, always will. I know of no way around that oth=
er than to keep trying.

>=20
> I'm increasingly of the opinion that XP remains useful precisely because=
 it has not had the same popularity that Scrum has suffered.

Honestly, I can't find much meat here. XP is valuable when people use its =
ideas properly and with skill. Scrum is exactly the same, valuable when don=
e properly and with skill.=20

XP is largely useless in the world, despite its value, because it has so l=
ittle coverage. It's useful to the few who do it, and isn't helping the man=
y more people who don't know it or don't use it.

Popularity isn't bad. Popularity is what makes a product successful. The t=
rick is to have a good product, and, ideally when it's really just a collec=
tion of ideas, to have a collection that can't be misused or faked. Unfortu=
nately, I don't know how to do that, and I suspect it's not possible.

> I'm likewise of the opinion that something that sells as well as Scrum i=
n a market full of broken management systems and toxic workplaces is to be =
viewed with extreme suspicion.


This is an interesting viewpoint. I would say this: Scrum is simplified, a=
nd sold to look good. People, unfortunately, don't actually have to buy and=
 install it in order to say they're doing Scrum. It's as if you could drive=
 a junker and get the same nods and smiles as the guy with the expensive Po=
rsche. Most bad Scrum is discernibly fake Scrum. I can find out how an orga=
nization is failing to do what Scrum says with a morning's work. Often it o=
nly takes two questions: tell me your worst problem, and then a question co=
nditioned on that answer.

However, since the world is full of broken things, and since it takes good=
 ideas to fix broken things, and since to fix lots of broken things, the go=
od ideas have to sell well ... either we're simply screwed (which is possib=
le), or we need to accept that selling well does not mean the product is ba=
d.

I don't expect the above to change your view, but it should at least get y=
ou thinking about how to improve the world at large without a set of ideas =
that can catch on, which would be an interesting outcome if possible.

Otherwise, the problem comes down to selling -- showing, convincing, illum=
inating for people that these ideas, actually practiced, can help them have=
 better results and a better life.

Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries.com <http://ronjeffries.com/>
There's no word for accountability in Finnish.=20
Accountability is something that is left when responsibility has been subt=
racted.=20
--Pasi Sahlberg


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=
=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mod=
e: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hello, James,<br class=
=
=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=
=3D"">On Dec 4, 2019, at 6:44 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
" class=3D"">[email protected]</a> wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-inte=
rchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-cap=
s: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; di=
splay: inline !important;" class=3D"">I'm always fascinated by folks who lo=
ok at the corrupt, burning garbage heap that is Scrum Certification and thi=
nk, "I want that, but for development practices."</span><br style=3D"caret-=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal=
; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: n=
ormal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>I pay a lot =
of attention to Scrum and its works and pomps, and I wouldn't characterize =
it that harshly. I'd like to have something that popular for development pr=
actices. Scrum is often executed very poorly, but it is well known. In the =
dev practices area, we have almost zero coverage compared to Scrum.&nbsp;</=
div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>As for certifications, I am opposed to t=
hem, unless they have actual meat. See the Agile Alliance policy statement =
on certifications. They do have one major advantage, however: they sell tra=
ining. It's easy to be cynical about selling, but if we can't get people le=
arning our ideas one way or another, we can't help them.</div><div><br clas=
s=3D""></div><div>An issue with Scrum certifications is the apparent distan=
ce between "certified scrumMASTER" and mastery, which may or may not actual=
ly be confusing the market. I suspect it does not, because I don't believe =
any reasoning being thinks two days of training makes a master of anything.=
 The real bug, I suspect, is that the CSM course went on for years and year=
s without any real effort to make clear that it was the beginning, and with=
out providing learning material for moving beyond the two days. Now, both S=
crum Alliance and <a href=3D"http://scrum.org" class=3D"">scrum.org</a>&nbs=
p;have begun to push additional learning, which is a good thing. Possibly t=
oo little, too late.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>I do believe, howe=
ver, that the average Scrum "installation" is, if not Dark, at least Dimmin=
g, not delivering what it could for the organization, and quite often makin=
g the lives of the people at the code face worse. I also believe that the p=
ractices and understanding of what was called XP can help developers with t=
hat, if only we could reach them.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>One w=
ould hope that whatever people do today would include some learning from th=
e Scrum situation, to avoid as many of the problems as possible. That said,=
 good ideas get watered down, often to the point of turning rotten. They al=
ways have, and, I fear, always will. I know of no way around that other tha=
n to keep trying.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=
=3D""><div class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:=
 ArialMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; f=
ont-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:=
 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit=
-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"=
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 18px; font-styl=
e: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-sp=
ace: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decora=
tion: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I'm increa=
singly of the opinion that XP remains useful precisely because it has not h=
ad the same popularity that Scrum has suffered.</span></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br class=3D""></div><div>Honestly, I can't find much meat here. XP is v=
aluable when people use its ideas properly and with skill. Scrum is exactly=
 the same, valuable when done properly and with skill.&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>XP is largely useless in the world, despite its value=
, because it has so little coverage. It's useful to the few who do it, and =
isn't helping the many more people who don't know it or don't use it.</div>=
<div><br class=3D""></div><div>Popularity isn't bad. Popularity is what mak=
es a product successful. The trick is to have a good product, and, ideally =
when it's really just a collection of ideas, to have a collection that can'=
t be misused or faked. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do that, and I su=
spect it's not possible.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" clas=
s=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-famil=
y: ArialMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;=
 font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-inden=
t: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webk=
it-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inl=
ine !important;" class=3D"">I'm likewise of the opinion that something that=
 sells as well as Scrum in a market full of broken management systems and t=
oxic workplaces is to be viewed with extreme suspicion.</span></div></block=
quote></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This is an=
 interesting viewpoint. I would say this: Scrum is simplified, and sold to =
look good. People, unfortunately, don't actually have to buy and install it=
 in order to say they're doing Scrum. It's as if you could drive a junker a=
nd get the same nods and smiles as the guy with the expensive Porsche. Most=
 bad Scrum is discernibly fake Scrum. I can find out how an organization is=
 failing to do what Scrum says with a morning's work. Often it only takes t=
wo questions: tell me your worst problem, and then a question conditioned o=
n that answer.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Ho=
wever, since the world is full of broken things, and since it takes good id=
eas to fix broken things, and since to fix lots of broken things, the good =
ideas have to sell well ... either we're simply screwed (which is possible)=
, or we need to accept that selling well does not mean the product is bad.<=
/div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I don't expect th=
e above to change your view, but it should at least get you thinking about =
how to improve the world at large without a set of ideas that can catch on,=
 which would be an interesting outcome if possible.</div><div class=3D""><b=
r class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Otherwise, the problem comes down to sel=
ling -- showing, convincing, illuminating for people that these ideas, actu=
ally practiced, can help them have better results and a better life.</div><=
div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: nor=
mal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-=
wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white=
-space;" class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collap=
se: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: norm=
al; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line=
-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; te=
xt-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; bord=
er-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-str=
oke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: sp=
ace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><span class=3D"Appl=
e-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font=
-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align=
: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal=
; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decoratio=
ns-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><br cl=
ass=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Ron Jeffries</div><div class=3D""><a href=
=
=3D"http://ronjeffries.com" class=3D"">ronjeffries.com</a></div><span clas=
s=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: =
0px;"><div class=3D"">There's no word for accountability in Finnish.&nbsp;<=
/div><div class=3D"">Accountability is something that is left when responsi=
bility has been subtracted.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">--Pasi Sahlberg</div=
></span></span></div></span></div>
</div>
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