Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?

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Been there, done that (sorta).

 In a startup with a junior crew, had every dev pair with a TW consultant
to learn TDD and CI. It was 2002 and we were the first outside thoughtwork=
s
to use CC.net. we ran with cc.net and some devs doing tdd some not. Ran
that way for a year.

Then they lost their investor and downsized, I left. After I left the
remaining team abandoned tdd (except one infected dev), and soon after
turned off cc.net. Eventually, they did choose to revive cc.net, 3 years
later.

I was shocked when I heard the devs chose to abandon disciplines that had
helped to save the business. It took them 3 years to mature to a point
where they recognized the value of CI. I doubt they do tdd. Since that tim=
e
I have been involved with many Agile transitions and seen the same pattern=
s
in adopting Scrum and Agile.

Robin Dymond, CST
Managing Partner, Innovel
www.innovel.net
www.scrumtraining.com
Direct: (804) 239-4329
twitter: @robindymond
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 12:43 PM Ron Jeffries <[email protected]> wrot=
e:

> In my view this should never, ever, be done:
>
> On Dec 6, 2019, at 12:03 PM, Eb Alson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Imposing at the right altitude is critical then because =E2=80=9CUsing X=
P or doing
> TDD=E2=80=9C can also be the goal/standard  that a CTO sets.
>
>
>
> Ron Jeffries
> ronjeffries.com
> There's no word for accountability in Finnish.
> Accountability is something that is left when responsibility has been
> subtracted.
> --Pasi Sahlberg
>
>=20
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Been there, done that (sorta).<div dir=3D"auto"><br><div =
dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0In a startup with a junior crew, had every dev pair with=
 a TW consultant to learn TDD and CI. It was 2002 and=C2=A0<span style=3D"f=
ont-family:sans-serif">we were the first outside thoughtworks to use CC.net=
. we ran with <a href=3D"http://cc.net">cc.net</a> and some devs doing tdd =
some not. Ran that way for a year.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=
=
=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-seri=
f">Then they lost their investor and downsized, I left. After I left the re=
maining team abandoned tdd (except one infected dev), and soon after turned=
 off <a href=3D"http://cc.net">cc.net</a>. Eventually, they did choose to r=
evive <a href=3D"http://cc.net">cc.net</a>, 3 years later.</font></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<font face=3D"sans-serif">I was shocked when I heard the devs chose to aban=
don disciplines that had helped to save the business. It took them 3 years =
to mature to a point where they recognized the value of CI. I doubt they do=
 tdd. Since that time I have been involved with many Agile transitions and =
seen the same patterns in adopting Scrum and Agile.<br></font><br><div data=
-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature" dir=3D"auto">Robin Dymond, CST<br>Managing P=
artner, Innovel<br><a href=3D"http://www.innovel.net">www.innovel.net</a><b=
r><a href=3D"http://www.scrumtraining.com">www.scrumtraining.com</a><br>Dir=
ect: (804) 239-4329<br>twitter: @robindymond<br>Linkedin:=C2=A0<a href=3D"h=
ttps://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond">https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindy=
mond</a></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 12:43 PM Ron Jeffries &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:brea=
k-word;line-break:after-white-space">In my view this should never, ever, be=
 done:<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 6, 2019, at 12:03 =
PM, Eb Alson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><span style=
=3D"font-family:ArialMT;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps=
:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-inde=
nt:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decorat=
ion:none;float:none;display:inline!important">Imposing at the right altitud=
e is critical then because =E2=80=9CUsing XP or doing TDD=E2=80=9C can also=
 be the goal/standard =C2=A0that a CTO sets.</span></div></blockquote></div=
><br><div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text=
-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wr=
ap:break-word"><span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);fon=
t-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal=
;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-inde=
nt:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spaci=
ng:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"border-collapse:=
separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-vari=
ant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text=
-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;=
word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px"><div><br>Ron Jeffries</div><div><a hre=
f=3D"http://ronjeffries.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ronjeffri=
es.com</a></div><span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"=
><div>There&#39;s no word for accountability in Finnish.=C2=A0</div><div>Ac=
countability is something that is left when responsibility has been subtrac=
ted.=C2=A0</div><div>--Pasi Sahlberg</div></span></span></div></span></div>
</div>
<br></div>


</p></p></blockquote></div>

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