Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?
"Ron Jeffries" <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:12:00 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--Apple-Mail=_618FAD31-2A23-433E-8427-F9C3C2C4DC0A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Robin, > On Dec 6, 2019, at 2:59 PM, R Dymond <[email protected]> wrote: >=20 > I was shocked when I heard the devs chose to abandon disciplines that ha= d helped to save the business. It took them 3 years to mature to a point wh= ere they recognized the value of CI. I doubt they do tdd. Since that time I= have been involved with many Agile transitions and seen the same patterns = in adopting Scrum and Agile. I think it does happen, usually when there's pressure from above. It's too= easy to fall into the feeling that we can go faster by skipping the tests.= And, for a brief while, if the code doesn't have to work all the time, we = can.=20 Mandating the practices, with pressure on, will just result in TDD with no= assertions. Any metric can and will be gamed, especially under pressure. Ron Jeffries ronjeffries.com <http://ronjeffries.com/>Speed is ppoor subsittute fo accu= rancy -- Fortune Cookie -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#160470): https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160470 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/61983806= 5/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --Apple-Mail=_618FAD31-2A23-433E-8427-F9C3C2C4DC0A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset= = =3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mod= e: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Robin,<br class=3D""><= div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On = Dec 6, 2019, at 2:59 PM, R Dymond <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= " class=3D"">[email protected]</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-int= erchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);= font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant= -caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: sta= rt; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spaci= ng: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none= ; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I was shocked when I heard the de= vs chose to abandon disciplines that had helped to save the business. It to= ok them 3 years to mature to a point where they recognized the value of CI.= I doubt they do tdd. Since that time I have been involved with many Agile = transitions and seen the same patterns in adopting Scrum and Agile.</span><= /div></blockquote></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>I think it doe= s happen, usually when there's pressure from above. It's too easy to fall i= nto the feeling that we can go faster by skipping the tests. And, for a bri= ef while, if the code doesn't have to work all the time, we can. <div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Mandating the practices, wi= th pressure on, will just result in TDD with no assertions. Any metric can = and will be gamed, especially under pressure.<br class=3D""><div class=3D""= > <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px= ; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spa= cing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-inde= nt: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing= : 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D"Apple-inter= change-newline">Ron Jeffries</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-f= amily: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal= ; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans= : 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space= : normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" cl= ass=3D""><a href=3D"http://ronjeffries.com" class=3D"">ronjeffries.com</a><= /div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-fa= mily: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;= font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans:= 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:= normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; bord= er-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;">Speed is ppoor subsittute fo a= ccurancy -- Fortune Cookie</span> </div> <br class=3D""></div></body></html> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160470">View/Reply Online (#160470)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject= = =3DRe:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%20y= ou%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Group</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject= = =3DPrivate:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20change= d%20for%20you%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Sender</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047">Mu= te This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/post">New Topic</a><br= > <br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/editsub/2417047">Your Su= bscription</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner<= /a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/= xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --Apple-Mail=_618FAD31-2A23-433E-8427-F9C3C2C4DC0A--