Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?

"Tim Ottinger via Groups.Io" <[email protected]> Sat, 7 Dec 2019 02:33:45 +0000 (UTC)
Newsgroups gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Aggro much?=C2=A0
I think that there is no reason that people who aren=E2=80=99t pro-certifi=
cation aren=E2=80=99t innovators in plenty of areas. Case in point: the ori=
ginal XP people. =C2=A0I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99ve seen an XP certif=
ication, so there are no innovators there? Do certifications cause innovati=
on or prevent it?=C2=A0
Now, that said, none of us gets to choose who the innovators are in the wo=
rld. You can expect whatever you want, as long as you don=E2=80=99t blame t=
he world for not meeting your expectations.
J. Holmes is well respected for his teaching, thinking, writing. I don=E2=
=80=99t think we need to rag on him or his views here.=C2=A0



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 19:03, R Dymond <[email protected]> wrot=
e:

Great. So we will not expect any innovation from you. That's OK. It took m=
e a while to realize that Extreme Positions don't really do anything except=
 reflect on me. Calling things broken doesn't fix it. Waiting for others to=
 change means everything is out of my control, and that is handy if I want =
to criticize, and it absolves me of any responsibility. These days I prefer=
 to act, to have empathy, to recognize that people have succeeded without m=
any of the ideas we advocate. So we are not "right," we have a different ap=
proach that we think is better. Our CUSTOMERS by in large do not agree that=
 it is better.
Regards=C2=A0Robin
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 5:44 PM <[email protected]> wrote:

I'm always fascinated by folks who look at the corrupt, burning garbage he=
ap that is Scrum Certification and think, "I want that, but for development=
 practices."

I'm increasingly of the opinion that XP remains useful precisely because i=
t has not had the same popularity that Scrum has suffered. I'm likewise of =
the opinion that something that sells as well as Scrum in a market full of =
broken management systems and toxic workplaces is to be viewed with extreme=
 suspicion.








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dy>
Aggro much?&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I think that there is no reason that =
people who aren=E2=80=99t pro-certification aren=E2=80=99t innovators in pl=
enty of areas. Case in point: the original XP people. &nbsp;I don=E2=80=99t=
 think I=E2=80=99ve seen an XP certification, so there are no innovators th=
ere? Do certifications cause innovation or prevent it?&nbsp;</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Now, that said, none of us gets to choose who the innovators are=
 in the world. You can expect whatever you want, as long as you don=E2=80=
=99t blame the world for not meeting your expectations.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>J. Holmes is well respected for his teaching, thinking, writing. I d=
on=E2=80=99t think we need to rag on him or his views here.&nbsp;</div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><a href=3D"https://overview.mail.yah=
oo.com/?.src=3DiOS">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a><br><br><p class=3D"ya=
hoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: #715FFA; padding-top: 15=
px; margin-top: 0">On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 19:03, R Dymond &lt;rdym=
[email protected]&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote class=3D"iosymail"><div id=3D"yiv=
9131267126"><div><div><div>Great. So we will not expect any innovation from=
 you. That's OK. It took me a while to realize that Extreme Positions don't=
 really do anything except reflect on me. Calling things broken doesn't fix=
 it. Waiting for others to change means everything is out of my control, an=
d that is handy if I want to criticize, and it absolves me of any responsib=
ility. These days I prefer to act, to have empathy, to recognize that peopl=
e have succeeded without many of the ideas we advocate. So we are not "righ=
t," we have a different approach that we think is better. Our CUSTOMERS by =
in large do not agree that it is better.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div=
><div>Regards&nbsp;</div><div>Robin</div><div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div=
><div class=3D"yiv9131267126gmail_quote"><div class=3D"yiv9131267126gmail_a=
ttr" dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 5:44 PM  &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shap=
e=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" href=
=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv9131267126gmail_quote" style=
=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I'm al=
ways fascinated by folks who look at the corrupt, burning garbage heap that=
 is Scrum Certification and think, "I want that, but for development practi=
ces."<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">I'm increasingly of the opinion =
that XP remains useful precisely because it has not had the same popularity=
 that Scrum has suffered. I'm likewise of the opinion that something that s=
ells as well as Scrum in a market full of broken management systems and tox=
ic workplaces is to be viewed with extreme suspicion.



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