Re: Re: Honestly Curious
"Alan Dayley [email protected] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]" <[email protected]> Sat, 24 Feb 2018 22:00:15 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.scrum.general |
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| Message-ID | <CAAzgOX28OhqAkxEnBm+zQte9+mdu+1k-J63cSUGOtioZGuh0Hg@mail.gmail.com> |
--001a113d0fb6f00f5d0566024485 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wasn't clear with my little bit about a required degree. I am sorry. In stating what degree would be good for a Scrum Master I was trying to indicate that a technical degree was not a better fit for the work of a Scrum Master. Therefore, technical skills are also not required for the work of a Scrum Master. To tell a true tale: Years ago I met an amazing project manager on a team of volunteers for a big community event. This person was the project manager for the team. They made charts, spreadsheets and detailed time lines. They pushed people for results, often pushing too hard and creating frustration for themselves and others. I got to know them better, learning that they were trained in marketing but had been a project manager for IT teams for some years. They had several certifications from PMI. As they learned I was a Scrum Master and then Agile Coach, they asked me questions. How did planning work if you didn't plan everything up front? How do you get people to do things if the self-organize? And so on. Over the years they began to apply some Agile and Scrum ideas to their work and the teams at their work. They began to see results. I pointed them to books, like Coaching Agile Teams and Agile Estimating and Planning. They devoured these books, often messaging me about difficulties and successes. One day they report that one team agreed to go "full Agile" as an experiment. In less than a year that team, with this person as Scrum Master, became the most productive and valuable in their organization. This led to the person teaching classes, getting Agile training and moving the entire IT department toward Agile ways of working. This very person is now an Enterprise Agile Coach at a large financial services company. They are certified in teaching several Agile frameworks and as a coach in the same. They are happier at work than they ever had been. This person had no professional programming experience. They simply were good at the people side of things. And they had the discipline to learn and grow in a new direction. "How does one who hasn=E2=80=99t done it know what it=E2=80=99s like to app= reciate the sweet elegance of a well crafted piece of code and live as a craftsman, while working under schedule pressure and perhaps in unsupportive physical surroundings?" People who don't code can create well crafted other things and live as a craftsman in their own sphere. It is not only technical people who feel schedule pressure and unsupportive surroundings. As long as someone is able to see the similarities in experiences of different work, I think they can be helpful to those with skills other than their own. "Certainly one can do a lot if one takes to heart the people they serve. And that quality is barely correlated with career path." Yes, I agree wholeheartedly! On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:33 PM, Michael Wollin [email protected] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I don=E2=80=99t believe I said any of that, Alan. I=E2=80=99m inviting yo= u to share about > one of these people and how they mastered the craft. > > On Feb 24, 2018, at 8:18 PM, Alan Dayley [email protected] > [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Think about writing a job description for a Scrum Master. You decide that > candidates must have a Bachelor's Degree in order to qualify. What course= s > of study, what degrees would be most beneficial to the work of a Scrum > Master? I don't think computer science or mathematics or various > engineering degrees are the answer. > > I have known many excellent Scrum Masters who have come from project > management backgrounds. A few have come from marketing or business > backgrounds. Many have come from technical fields, too. > > Alan > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:54 PM, [email protected] > [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> Excellent question, Michael. I used to think =E2=80=94decades into my pa= st=E2=80=94 that >> =E2=80=9Cthe only way=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94careful! Bigotry alarms at full = capacity here=E2=80=94 somebody >> could ever know and ever teach about something is by the sole means of >> direct experience. Period. Simple. End of discussion. >> >> >> Nowadays, =E2=80=94since about 28 years ago=E2=80=94, I reflect that the= subject matter >> of knowing and the subject matter of being able to teach or help others >> turned out to be not that simple. And the discussion is wide open, and t= he >> debate keeps very active among authorities on those subject matters. >> >> >> There are cases where somebody can, in fact, learn a lot from the >> experiences reported by others and by pure sheer thought based on sound >> theoretical schemes. So, now I think that a fully functional Scrum Maste= r >> =E2=80=94or anybody, for that matter=E2=80=94 can, in fact, help others = effectively without >> the sole means of direct experience. >> >> >> Does it make sense? >> >> >=20 > --001a113d0fb6f00f5d0566024485 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <head> <style type=3D"text/css"> <!-- /* start of attachment style */ .ygrp-photo-title{ clear: both; font-size: smaller; height: 15px; overflow: hidden; text-align: center; width: 75px; } div.ygrp-photo{ background-position: center; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-color: white; border: 1px solid black; height: 62px; width: 62px; } div.photo-title=20 a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-decoration: none;=20 } div.attach-table div.attach-row { clear: both; } div.attach-table div.attach-row div { float: left; /* margin: 2px;*/ } p { clear: both; padding: 15px 0 3px 0; overflow: hidden; } div.ygrp-file { width: 30px; valign: middle; } div.attach-table div.attach-row div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table div.attach-row div div span { font-weight: normal; } div.ygrp-file-title { font-weight: bold; } /* end of attachment style */ --> </style> </head> <html> <head> <style type=3D"text/css"> <!-- #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } --> </style> </head> <body> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br><br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <div dir=3D"ltr">I wasn't clear with my little bit about a required deg= ree. I am sorry. In stating what degree would be good for a Scrum Master I = was trying to indicate that a technical degree was not a better fit for the= work of a Scrum Master. Therefore, technical skills are also not required = for the work of a Scrum Master.<div><br></div><div>To tell a true tale:</di= v><div><br></div><div>Years ago I met an amazing project manager on a team = of volunteers for a big community event. This person was the project manage= r for the team. They made charts, spreadsheets and detailed time lines. The= y pushed people for results, often pushing too hard and creating frustratio= n for themselves and others.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I got to know t= hem better, learning that they were trained in marketing but had been a pro= ject manager for IT teams for some years. They had several certifications f= rom PMI. As they learned I was a Scrum Master and then Agile Coach, they as= ked me questions. How did planning work if you didn't plan everything u= p front? How do you get people to do things if the self-organize? And so on= ..</div><div><br></div><div>Over the years they began to apply some Agile an= d Scrum ideas to their work and the teams at their work. They began to see = results. I pointed them to books, like Coaching Agile Teams and Agile Estim= ating and Planning. They devoured these books, often messaging me about dif= ficulties and successes. One day they report that one team agreed to go &qu= ot;full Agile" as an experiment. In less than a year that team, with t= his person as Scrum Master, became the most productive and valuable in thei= r organization. This led to the person teaching classes, getting Agile trai= ning and moving the entire IT department toward Agile ways of working.</div= ><div><br></div><div>This very person is now an Enterprise Agile Coach at a= large financial services company. They are certified in teaching several A= gile frameworks and as a coach in the same. They are happier at work than t= hey ever had been. This person had no professional programming experience. = They simply were good at the people side of things. And they had the discip= line to learn and grow in a new direction.</div><div><br></div><div>"<= span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12= ..8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:norm= al;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;t= ext-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb= (255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;f= loat:none;display:inline">How does one who hasn=E2=80=99t done it know what= it=E2=80=99s like to appreciate the sweet elegance of a well crafted piece= of code and live as a craftsman, while working under schedule pressure and= perhaps in unsupportive physical surroundings?"</span></div><div><spa= n style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8p= x;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;= font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text= -transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(25= 5,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;floa= t:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8p= x">People who don't code can create well crafted other things and live = as a craftsman in their own sphere. It is not only technical people who fee= l schedule pressure and unsupportive surroundings. As long as someone is ab= le to see the similarities in experiences of different work, I think they c= an be helpful to those with skills other than their own.</span></div><div><= span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif= ;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-vari= ant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text= -indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;backgro= und-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-co= lor:initial;float:none;display:inline">"Certainly one can do a lot if = one takes to heart the people they serve. And that quality is barely correl= ated with career path."</span></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-si= ze:12.8px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;= font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-varia= nt-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-= indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;backgrou= nd-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-col= or:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></span></div><div><span st= yle=3D"font-size:12.8px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:ari= al,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:nor= mal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-ali= gn:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacin= g:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-= decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Yes, I agree wholeheart= edly!</span><br></span></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra= "><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:33 PM, Michael W= ollin <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> [SCRUM= DEVELOPMENT] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:SCRUMDEVELOPMENT@yahoo= groups.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></spa= n> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b= order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <u></u> =20 <div style=3D"background-color:#fff"> <span style=3D"display:none">=C2=A0</span> <div id=3D"m_-9032988364486140880ygrp-mlmsg"> <div id=3D"m_-9032988364486140880ygrp-msg"> <div id=3D"m_-9032988364486140880ygrp-text"> =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p></p><div></div><div>I don=E2=80=99t believe I said any of that, Al= an. I=E2=80=99m inviting you to share about one of these people and how the= y mastered the craft.=C2=A0</div><span class=3D""><div><br>On Feb 24, 2018,= at 8:18 PM, Alan Dayley <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">SCRUMDEVELOPMENT@y= ahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><= div> =20 <span>=C2=A0</span> <div id=3D"m_-9032988364486140880ygrp-text"> =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p></p><div dir=3D"ltr">Think about writing a job description for a S= crum Master. You decide that candidates must have a Bachelor's Degree i= n order to qualify. What courses of study, what degrees would be most benef= icial to the work of a Scrum Master? I don't think computer science or = mathematics or various engineering degrees are the answer.=C2=A0<div><br></= div><div>I have known many excellent Scrum Masters who have come from proje= ct management backgrounds. A few have come from marketing or business backg= rounds. Many have come from technical fields, too.</div><div><br></div><div= >Alan</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:54 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:marcodo= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> [SCRUMD= EVELOPMENT] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:SCRUMDEVELOPMENT@yahoog= roups.com" target=3D"_blank">SCRUMDEVELOPMENT@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>><= /span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px= #ccc solid"> <u></u> =20 <div style=3D"background-color:#fff"> <span>=C2=A0</span> <div id=3D"m_-9032988364486140880m_-5723432152935198145ygrp-mlmsg"> <div id=3D"m_-9032988364486140880m_-5723432152935198145ygrp-msg"> <div id=3D"m_-9032988364486140880m_-5723432152935198145ygrp-text"> =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p><span></span></p><p>Excellent question, Michael. I used to think = =E2=80=94decades into my past=E2=80=94 that =E2=80=9Cthe only way=E2=80=9D = =E2=80=94careful! Bigotry alarms at full capacity here=E2=80=94 somebody co= uld ever know and ever teach about something is by the sole means of direct= experience. Period. Simple. End of discussion.</p><p><br>Nowadays, =E2=80= =94since about 28 years ago=E2=80=94, I reflect that the subject matter of = knowing and the subject matter of being able to teach or help others turned= out to be not that simple. And the discussion is wide open, and the debate= keeps very active among authorities on those subject matters.</p><p><br>Th= ere are cases where somebody can, in fact, learn a lot from the experiences= reported by others and by pure sheer thought based on sound theoretical sc= hemes. So, now I think that a fully functional Scrum Master =E2=80=94or any= body, for that matter=E2=80=94 can, in fact, help others effectively withou= t the sole means of direct experience.</p><p><br></p><p>Does it make sense?= <br class=3D"m_-9032988364486140880m_-5723432152935198145yui-cursor"></p><p= ></p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"color:#fff;height:0"></div> </div> =20=20 </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> <p></p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 </div></blockquote></span><p></p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"color:#fff;height:0"></div> </div> =20=20 </blockquote></div><br></div> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br> <br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color: white; clear: both;"/>__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20=20 <div id=3D"fromDMARC" style=3D"clear:both; margin-top: 10px;"> <hr style=3D"height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; backgroun= d-color:#E3E3E3;"> Posted by: Alan Dayley <[email protected]> <hr = style=3D"height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3= E3;"> </div> <!-- Start Recommendations --> <!-- End Recommendations --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br><br> <tt> To Post a message, send it to: [email protected]<BR> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: SCRUMDEVELOPMENT-unsubscribe@eGrou= ps.com</tt> <br><br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <img src=3D"http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=3D97476590/grpId=3D1569064/grpspI= d=3D1705007709/msgId=3D58804/stime=3D1519534822" width=3D"1" height=3D"1"> = <br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> =20=20 <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br> =20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20 =20 <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #f2f2f2; font-fam= ily: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-tr= ansform: uppercase; "><a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SCRUMD= EVELOPMENT/info;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJldjk5OGZwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1NjkwNjQE= Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTUxOTUzNDgxOA--" s= tyle=3D"text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a></span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: in= line;"> </ul> </div> <div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p= x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkOXZrZGRlBF9TAzk3ND= c2NTkwBGdycElkAzE1NjkwNjQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzd= GltZQMxNTE5NTM0ODIy" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/r= u/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" height=3D"15"= width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! 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