Re: [testdrivendevelopment] "I think the community needs more explicit direction...."
"Charles Gallo" <[email protected]> Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:46:21 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.test-driven-development |
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--=_1f6db663243c28e77a4b830b5cd06806 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII And then they get to the point the program is buggy, because it is anti-DRY, and not SOLID at all, and they (Management) throws up their hands, bring in some new technology, and throws THAT at it, hoping that at least parts work, until they re-write the whole thing AKA they not only haven't learned from Fred Brooks, they probably have never heard the name, because they are a good dressing 35-40 year old, and of COURSE things are different now, and everyone knows this new framework/package is going to cure all our problems Silver Bullets, Mongolian Horde method of programming, and a re-write will always be better (How much business logic have I seen in controllers, and repeated multiple places, because they don't want to touch the classes the ORM generated Charlie (looking for a new gig btw) On 2019-11-25 12:36, Tim Ottinger wrote: > EVERYTHING a new programmers sees is "memorize how to do this, use it to get an effect, move on quickly" and of course going faster is the hallmark of a good programmer. What does a code craft person know? They took all day on this code, but I spat out more code in a half-day and completed more tickets. What good is TDD, Refactoring, etc if it slows us down!? > > And managers generally agree. Faster is better. More faster is more better. The fastest programmer is the best programmer. > > So *learning* is a waste. *knowing* is a waste. Refactoring is waste. Testing is waste. Just get the effect and move on, friends. > > Except that all of that is wrong and a dead end. > > But how can you tell people whose whole worldview is, and has always been, exactly to get an effect and move on? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#35775): https://groups.io/g/testdrivendevelopment/message/35775 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/61850834/3268755 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/testdrivendevelopment/leave/6156322/744556386/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --=_1f6db663243c28e77a4b830b5cd06806 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset= = =3DUTF-8" /></head><body style=3D'font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Ge= neva,sans-serif'> <p>And then they get to the point the program is buggy, because it is anti= -DRY, and not SOLID at all, and they (Management) throws up their hands, br= ing in some new technology, and throws THAT at it, hoping that at least par= ts work, until they re-write the whole thing<br /><br />AKA they not only h= aven't learned from Fred Brooks, they probably have never heard the name, b= ecause they are a good dressing 35-40 year old, and of COURSE things are di= fferent now, and everyone knows this new framework/package is going to cure= all our problems<br /><br />Silver Bullets, Mongolian Horde method of prog= ramming, and a re-write will always be better (How much business logic have= I seen in controllers, and repeated multiple places, because they don't wa= nt to touch the classes the ORM generated</p> <p><br /></p> <p>Charlie</p> <p>(looking for a new gig btw)</p> <p><br /></p> <p>On 2019-11-25 12:36, Tim Ottinger wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff = 2px solid; margin: 0"> <div dir=3D"ltr">EVERYTHING a new programmers sees is "memorize how to do = this, use it to get an effect, move on quickly" and of course going faster = is the hallmark of a good programmer. What does a code craft person know? T= hey took all day on this code, but I spat out more code in a half-day and c= ompleted more tickets. What good is TDD, Refactoring, etc if it slows us do= wn!?<br /><br />And managers generally agree. Faster is better. More faster= is more better. The fastest programmer is the best programmer. <br />= <br />So *learning* is a waste. *knowing* is a waste. Refactoring is waste.= Testing is waste. Just get the effect and move on, friends.<br /><br />Exc= ept that all of that is wrong and a dead end. <br /><br />But how can = you tell people whose whole worldview is, and has always been, exactly to g= et an effect and move on? </div> </blockquote> </body></html> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/testdrivendevelopment/mes= sage/35775">View/Reply Online (#35775)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subj= ect=3DRe:%20Re%3A%20%5Btestdrivendevelopment%5D%20%22I%20think%20the%20comm= unity%20needs%20more%20explicit%20direction....%22">Reply To Group</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3D= Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Btestdrivendevelopment%5D%20%22I%20think%20the%2= 0community%20needs%20more%20explicit%20direction....%22">Reply To Sender</a= > | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/61850834/3268755">Mu= te This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/testdrivendevelopment/post">New Topic</a>= <br> <br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/testdrivendevelopment/editsub/3268755">Your= Subscription</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Own= er</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/testdrivendevelopment/leave/6156322/7445563= 86/xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --=_1f6db663243c28e77a4b830b5cd06806--