Re: Re: Re: Have you looked at UIML?

Hi,

  Just to summarize to clear-up any misunderstanding:

   Anygui is a fantastic project and by its very
nature is more pythonic than XUL. Both can exist
side-by side peacefully.

   As mentioned before I want to stress the importance
of XUL as it has the same goal as Anygui, that is,
creating rich UIs independent of the GUI toolkit. 

   You don't need to rush into supporting XUL, but
putting it on the backburner isn't the way to go
either.

   XUL somehow seems to be held back by the myth that
it is a Mozilla only affair: No, XUL (that is, XML
User Interface Language) is like HTML independent of
the browser or toolkit (although XUL is still evolving
and not sanctioned by the W3C it will eventually get
standardized like HTML in the early days; after all a
shake-out in the real-world is better than
recommending a spec that is dead on arrival).

   XUL and XML UI alternatives: For now XForms is the
only viable alternative. However, XForms is just a
building block (that is, a subset) of XUL. Conclusio:
XUL and XForms don't compete. XForms is just a
stripped down, minimal XUL ultra-lite version. As an
example: XUL includes tags like toolbar, menubar,
tree, datagrid, popup, and so on all of which are
missing in XForms.


> Given my current understanding of the situation
> (which I am more than
> happy to revise, mind you) I think adding a XUL
> component/parser/thingy to Anygui is fine. Other
> than that, I'm not
> sure what you would like us to do. (Changing
> component names etc.
> might be fine too, but then I'd like concrete naming
> suggestions
> really soon -- from anyone who't interested in the
> matter.)

  Anygui is your project and all I wanted to achieve
is to stress the importance of XUL. It's up to you to
decide how to add XUL to anygui and make anygui more
accessible and useful.

  As I wrote earlier, I will get back with more
specific thoughts once I read your Practial Python.
Expect some specifics in mid-October.

> Whether he is an expert, has studied the issue for 
> long time and all the trade-offs or he is just in an

> honey-moon phase with a technology  or a zealot,
> it does not matter, talking down to people and 
> brochureware arguments sound simply incompetent and 
> arrogant to technical ears.

  Unfortunately, I don't have the time to reproduce my
XUL talk slides and tech docs in every single email
and in addition who is going to read dozens of pages
or more. 

  I invite you to browse over the Luxor XUL docs at
http://luxor-xul.sourceforge.net and see if your
brochureware argument is justified.

  The goal of XUL like HTML is freedom (that is, 
freedom to choose your GUI toolkit, your scripting
language, your runtime, and so on).

 Brand me as zealot or whatever, but I don't accept
the single-vendor milk machine toolkits that are
prelevent today if you build desktop apps . 

 Hoping that Micropoly, Sun, IBM or any other
multinational will liberate you is misplaced.
Tim-Berners Lee lead the HTML campaign, now it's time
to champion the XUL campaign to build on the succes of
the HTML story. 

 - Gerald

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