Re: do we need plone.app.customerize? was: [Plone-Users] Insufficient privileges on folder_contents

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2013, at 12:07 am, Lennart Regebro <[email protected]> wrote:
>> This allows you a lot of TTW flexibility. The only thing of this you
>> even need to go to the ZMI for is if you want to make new workflows. I
>> have customers where I set up a demonstration server of Plone to see
>> if they liked it. They did. A year later they wanted some changes, and
>> it turned out they took that plain Plone demo site and started using
>> it as a procurement management system. :-)
>
> exactly. Wouldn't it be nice if that code was actually maintainable and used techniques that were the same as you use on the filesystem?

I don't follow you. What code?

>> Now of course, there is another level of flexibility given when you
>> can create new templates, and the next level of flexibility is when
>> you can develop things in Python. And I do want a story to make that
>> easy. But does it really have to be TTW to be easy? The only benefit I
>> can see with TTW is that it allows me to fix urgent bugs in minutes
>> instead of say, 15 minutes. I don't think the drawbacks are worth it.
>
> For you yes. to someone who doesn't know buildout, eggs, IDEs, ZCML, GS, no. It's enough to make you use Wordpress. As even many in the Plone community do when they want a simple site. I want to grow the community. We can't do that by only pleasing those who already know Plone.

No, you make the very mistake I tried to prevent and explain in the
post you commented in. You see the benefits of TTW as inseparable from
how things work right now. I'm saying that this is not the case. I'm
saying we need to identify what you need, exactly, and solve that in
ways that do not have the current drawbacks.

> The way it gives the added value is by not requiring anything to be installed, configured or any skeletons. You can develop on a cloud service, a AMI image, a VM or any other way you can have Plone running. That makes Plone incredibly accessible. People just want to customise their site as easily as they can. They less they have to learn or struggle with to get there the more popular the CMS will be. We've just done TTW badly in the past. We can fix that.

My question still is why you need code in the ZODB, and why you need
it edited through the browsers built in text field, and why you
absolutely have to not have your code versioned. If you don't need any
of that, then you are arguing about the wrong thing.

//Lennart

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