Re: on yuksel and the "19" folk - Bible/Hadith use.

salaam,

Thx Afdhere I think u bring up another interesting
point - one that I'm wrestling with now.  

Afdhere write:

salam,

"for me, the bible are historical companion to the
qur'an prior to muhammad's coming" 

I kinda disagree.  As u know there was no bible before
Muhammad, so I'm assuming u mean the Gospel and Torah.
 These were the revealed word of God according to
Islam.  They were not hadiths of any prophet, they
were Al-Kitab the Book.  Because they were destroyed
and or lost the Quran was revealed.  The Quran is
Torah and Injeel revised as well as itself - Quran. 
The Gospel doesn't exist today.  The bible contains
four varying accounts of the Gospel 'The Gospel
according Matthew', etc.  That would be like four
varying accounts of the Quran.  According to Islam the
Gospel (injeel) and Torah are not the hadiths of any
prophet they were scripture.

The real issue that I'm wrestling with is highlighted
by this statement you made

"the 23 year span of the hadiths are very important to
the qur'an. without the hadiths, we would have no clue
about stuff qur'an mentions in passing..." 

who is the "we", that you are referring to.  Would the
Sahaba, the prophet's comtemporaries be apart of this?
Or are you referring to all generations after the
prophet.  There are whole parts of the Quran that
specifically address the Arab people,  their are parts
of the Quran that chide the people for rejecting one
raised from among their own kith and kin.  How could
this ever apply to anyone who lives and breaths today?
 Maybe those things in the Quran that need hadith to
be explained fully are not meant for us anyway?  Just
a thought.  To me, there are clear differences between
statements or even directives given under specified
conditions versus the broader declarative statemnts
about humankind, goodness, shaitan and humankind's
relationship to God.  Maybe there are parts of the
Quran that are to serve as a record of God's
interaction with the sahaba, as an example of how God
works but not necessarily directives for us to follow
in 2003.  If we need hadiths to interpret it, was it
really meant for us?    
















 

--- Afdhere Jama <[email protected]> wrote:

---------------------------------


salam,

for me, the bible are historical companion to the
qur'an prior to muhammad's coming ... while the
hadiths are historical companion to the qur'an
during/post muhammad. the 23 year span of the hadiths
are very important to the qur'an. without the hadiths,
we would have no clue about stuff qur'an mentions in
passing... that took place during those 23 years. 

afdhere


Afdhere Jama 
Editorial Director 
HURIYAH Publications 
S A N F R A N C I S C O 
[email protected] 
http://www.huriyahmag.org 
 
>From: Elisha >Reply-To:
[email protected] >To:
[email protected] >Subject:
Re: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on yuksel and the "19"
folk - Bible/Hadith use. >Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003
14:09:14 -0800 (PST) > >salaam Afdhere, > >Afdhere
wrote: > >"just couple centuries after muhammad's
death. so, >just because one not-so-authentic source
is older than >other not-so-authentic sources... it
makes it more >reliable? :) come on now." > >Older is
not the point...being a primary document is. >The
hadiths span 23 years at most, the books of bible
>spans millenia - making it a useful resource to
>identify things that the Quran speaks of. Not the
>bible itself, but its various 66 books are each to
>varying degrees historical artifacts in ways the
>hadiths cannot function as. Hadiths are contemporary
>to the Quran, the books of the bible are not. In this
>context the bible has utility in areas the hadiths
may >not - thats all. In fact, even if tampered with
the >books of the bible are literally refered to in
the >Quran (i.e. the Psalms), this is not so for
hadiths >(not hints, I'm talking literally now). I
don't know >about these peoples' intentions. I'm just
saying that >it is theoretically possible to use the
books of the >bible in Quranic commentary and not the
hadiths >without having ill-intent. > >Also, the
people (or person - lol) at Quran.org also >say that
the hadiths are Satanic. You're right, I too >am
skeptical of people who only view things in
>dichotomies. > > > > 


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