RE: RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #417 - 1 msg

Salaams Aisha,

I've always thought that this provision regarding sex with slaves had to
be read in it's historical context and in light of the other, more
numerous provisions that require the freeing of slaves in atonement or
in lieu of other fard acts (such as fasting).  I interpret the
provisions about slaves, taken in their totality, to indicate that Allah
is pleased with the freeing of slaves.  I have a hard time wrapping my
head around the fact that there is no clear prohibition of slavery and
the excesses it engenders, but I guess it's possible that in the
historical context of the Qur'an immediate freedom of all slaves may
have actual been to the detriment of many of those who were enslaved at
that time including 
1)the catastrophic withdrawal of subsistence of too many women and
children 
2)physical abuse from everyone, as the (protected) property of no one
---I'm thinking, for example of Somalia:  the dissolution of
infrastructure and formal heirarchies has resulted in increased violence
and abuse for everyone...
I realize this is an easily corruptible argument for those who'd like to
see the power status quo remain...
Just some thoughts over lunch.  Alhamdulilah for lunch and for relative
freedom. 

Sofia


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Kate Ahmad
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest,
Vol 1 #417 - 1 msg


Asalaamu alaikum,
I respectfully disagree with your point on polygamy.
While Allah states that it is possible for men to take 4 wives, he then
goes 
on to state that they must be treated equally and that it is impossible
to 
do that.  So, if read fully, the Quran does not condone polygamy, in
fact it 
states that it cannot be done in a lawful manner.
So to me, polygamy is not allowed.  Allah tests us by making us think
about 
his words.  There would be nothing to discover and strive for if
everything 
was written in point form.  That is why there is a hadith that states
'Any 
scholar who issues an opinion will be rewarded once if it is wrong, and 
twice if it is right.'

On another point, sex with slaves is not something I can condone in my
mind 
- can anybody justify it?

Wa'salaam
Aisha


>From: "y2" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol

>1
>#417 - 1 msg
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:10:28 -0500
>
>Salaams,
>
>Well, to start off with.  I have my suspicions as to the intentions of 
>this question, but I'll bite anyways.
>
>1.  A muslim is never alloed to be unfaithful.  You are NOT allowed to 
>have sex with slaves as if they're objects.
>
>As I was taught, the idea of 'slaves' as mentioned in the koran are 
>refered to in 2 contexts.  I of course had questions on reading the 
>English translation of slaves, and it was explained in this context. 1.

>The recognition that slaves did exist at that time.  And the koran has 
>no fear addressing this problem and thus declares way to free slaves
>
>2.  'slaves' as those captured in battle has more to do with the 
>concept of the modern prisoner of war.  And thus, you most certainly 
>withhold from them some rights, but their children and what not must be

>born free.  You can most certainly marry one of this POWs...They can 
>and should be exchanged with your own POWs.
>
>The possibility of multiple wives is of course something that is there.
>Its
>a matter of responsbility and circumstance.  Most certainly in times of
war
>if many men died, it would be reasonable if a man could have more than
one
>woman.  This has nothing to do with a faithfulness.  The man is still
>required to be faithful to his wives, equally.
>
>The 'ease' of divorce is nothing to be exploited by anyone.  Those who 
>do are committing a sin.  Why would GOD make it difficult for two 
>people who cannot continue as a family to divorce?
>
>I would first question the basis of each of your points (1-3) before
>jumping
>to the next stage of conclusions.
>
>Yameen
>
> > Message: 1
> > From: "talib ul-Haq" <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:25:03 +0000
> > Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] More on Sex
> > Reply-To: [email protected]
> >
> > Salaams everyone
> >
> > The usual take on this sex is that it is sacred etc. This is a 
> > useful message to propogate at a time of HIV/AIDS.
> >
> > Yet, several issues make me wonder if, however useful, and however 
> > desperate I am to make the argument, this is an argument that can
> > really withstand
> > Qur'anic scrutiny. Let's look at the following
> >
> > a) the phenomenon of temporary marriage - even if no longer 
> > applicable, i.e., mansukh
> > b) the ease of divorce
> > c) the possibility of four wives
> > d) the permissability of sex with any amount of slaves
> >
> > The prohibition on Zina is a matter completely aside. This 
> > prohibition says nothing about the sanctity of sex or the need for 
> > one partner. It may say
> > some stuff about fidelity, or the sanctity of marriage.
> >
> > The dominant Islamic message has been one of 'be faithful" - the B 
> > in the ABC. Does this faithfulness have anything to with the
> > sanctity of sex inside
> > marriage? If yes, then why can I have as many other sexual
> > partners as I
> > want as long as I own them?
> >
> > Salaams
> >
> > Talib
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
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