slavery, polygamy

salam,

perhaps it should mentioned that slaves in the context of the qur'an is not as the same as other 'kinds' of slaves. in islamic history, we see arabs enslaving other arabs. sometimes, very close tribes. so perhaps we should look at it more as captives of war... rather than slavery? on the other hand, you could sell your captives. so in a sense it is slavery. but i don't think it is the same as that of modern slavery (where families were not known, where children were separated from families, etc.)

muhammad's adopted son, zayyid, was 'slave.' at the same time, his (birth) parents were not slaves... and people knew him by his parent's name. it is been related that it was forbidden for muslims to refer to him as the 'son of muhammad' because his family were known.

on polygamy, marriage, like i mentioned many times, in islam, it is all about children. folks should note that the verse that "legalizes" polygamy in the qur'an comes after a verse that deals with orphans. it should also be noted that muhammad's polygamous marriages were all about orphans, politics, etc. his wife of choice and love was khadijah. and he remained with her until she died. most of his other wives were widows and mothers of orphans.

the problem with polygamy with muslims is that the notion of marriage is lost. in the arab world (who -- whether folks agree or not -- "set" muslim rules), marriage has always been about children. even today, most men get married for children. that said, polygamy in the arab world is no longer mostly restricted to widows and orphans. it is now used to make families larger.

afdhere

Afdhere Jama
Editorial Director
HURIYAH Publications
S A N F R A N C I S C O
[email protected]
http://www.huriyahmag.com

>From: "Sofia Memon" >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: >Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #417 - 1 msg >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:57:26 -0500 > >Salaams Aisha, > >I've always thought that this provision regarding sex with slaves had to >be read in it's historical context and in light of the other, more >numerous provisions that require the freeing of slaves in atonement or >in lieu of other fard acts (such as fasting). I interpret the >provisions about slaves, taken in their totality, to indicate that Allah >is pleased with the freeing of slaves. I have a hard time wrapping my >head around the fact that there is no clear prohibition of slavery and >the excesses it engenders, but I guess it's po
ssible that in the >historical context of the Qur'an immediate freedom of all slaves may >have actual been to the detriment of many of those who were enslaved at >that time including >1)the catastrophic withdrawal of subsistence of too many women and >children >2)physical abuse from everyone, as the (protected) property of no one >---I'm thinking, for example of Somalia: the dissolution of >infrastructure and formal heirarchies has resulted in increased violence >and abuse for everyone... >I realize this is an easily corruptible argument for those who'd like to >see the power status quo remain... >Just some thoughts over lunch. Alhamdulilah for lunch and for relative >freedom. > >Sofia > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of >Kate Ahmad >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:57 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, >Vol 1 #417 - 1 msg > > >Asalaamu alaikum, >I respectfully disagree with your point on polygamy. >While Allah states that it is possible for men to take 4 wives, he then >goes >on to state that they must be treated equally and that it is impossible >to >do that. So, if read fully, the Quran does not condone polygamy, in >fact it >states that it cannot be done in a lawful manner. >So to me, polygamy is not allowed. Allah tests us by making us think >about >his words. There would be nothing to discover and strive for if >everything >was written in point form. That is why there is a hadith that states >'Any >scholar who issues an opinion
will be rewarded once if it is wrong, and >twice if it is right.' > >On another point, sex with slaves is not something I can condone in my >mind >- can anybody justify it? > >Wa'salaam >Aisha > > > >From: "y2" > >Reply-To: [email protected] > >To: > >Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol > > >1 > >#417 - 1 msg > >Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:10:28 -0500 > > > >Salaams, > > > >Well, to start off with. I have my suspicions as to the intentions of > >this question, but I'll bite anyways. > > > >1. A muslim is never alloed to be unfaithful. You are NOT allowed to > >have sex with slaves as if they're objects. > > > >As I was taugh
t, the idea of 'slaves' as mentioned in the koran are > >refered to in 2 contexts. I of course had questions on reading the > >English translation of slaves, and it was explained in this context. 1. > > >The recognition that slaves did exist at that time. And the koran has > >no fear addressing this problem and thus declares way to free slaves > > > >2. 'slaves' as those captured in battle has more to do with the > >concept of the modern prisoner of war. And thus, you most certainly > >withhold from them some rights, but their children and what not must be > > >born free. You can most certainly marry one of this POWs...They can > >and should be exchanged with your own POWs. > > > >The possibility of multiple wives is of course something that is there. > >Its > >a matter of responsbility and circum
stance. Most certainly in times of >war > >if many men died, it would be reasonable if a man could have more than >one > >woman. This has nothing to do with a faithfulness. The man is still > >required to be faithful to his wives, equally. > > > >The 'ease' of divorce is nothing to be exploited by anyone. Those who > >do are committing a sin. Why would GOD make it difficult for two > >people who cannot continue as a family to divorce? > > > >I would first question the basis of each of your points (1-3) before > >jumping > >to the next stage of conclusions. > > > >Yameen > > > > > Message: 1 > > > From: "talib ul-Haq" > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:25:03 +0000 > > > Subject: [Prog
ressivemuslimsnetwork] More on Sex > > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > > > > Salaams everyone > > > > > > The usual take on this sex is that it is sacred etc. This is a > > > useful message to propogate at a time of HIV/AIDS. > > > > > > Yet, several issues make me wonder if, however useful, and however > > > desperate I am to make the argument, this is an argument that can > > > really withstand > > > Qur'anic scrutiny. Let's look at the following > > > > > > a) the phenomenon of temporary marriage - even if no longer > > > applicable, i.e., mansukh > > > b) the ease of divorce > > > c) the possibility of four wives > > > d) the permissability of sex with any amount of slaves > > > > > > T
he prohibition on Zina is a matter completely aside. This > > > prohibition says nothing about the sanctity of sex or the need for > > > one partner. It may say > > > some stuff about fidelity, or the sanctity of marriage. > > > > > > The dominant Islamic message has been one of 'be faithful" - the B > > > in the ABC. Does this faithfulness have anything to with the > > > sanctity of sex inside > > > marriage? If yes, then why can I have as many other sexual > > > partners as I > > > want as long as I own them? > > > > > > Salaams > > > > > > Talib > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Need info in a hurry? Use MSN Search! http://search.msn.co.za/ > > > > > > > > &gt
; > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ProgressiveMuslims mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslim > > > s > > > > > > > > > End of ProgressiveMuslims Digest > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find love today with ninemsn personals. Click here: >http://ninemsn.match.com > > >_______________________________________________ >ProgressiveMuslims m
ailing list >[email protected] >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims > > > >_______________________________________________ >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list >[email protected] >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims

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