RE: Hirshi

Salam everybody,
this is the first time I participate in the PMN, I am
very glad for having discovered it.
I take the occasion of the last exchange of mails on
the topics France and wife beatings to add my remarks.
I live in france since five years and the country
really became kind of islamophobic the last couple of
years. Especially the whole headscarf story threw us
way back. The debate which was hold last year was more
polemical than everything and unfortunetly there were
not so many reasonable muslim voices who had the
chance to be heard. 
Today you can read all kind of crap about islam in the
medias and it's okay, a well respected journalist is
even able to claim publically that he is islamophobe,
and it's okay too. Unfortunetly, this works cause you
always have people of muslim background who confirm
this stuff as "insiders who know the truth" .
And unfortunetly, the muslim community in France is
pretty conservative, and doesn't really know how to
represent itself. They largely participated in a
protest march against the headsarf law, organised by a
radical group where his leader is known to have made
some antisemitic and other radical remarks. And the
ladies were shouting among other things "it's a right
to be modest",which means implicitely that women
without headscarf are not modest!? Is this a way to
gain sympathies? The only times muslim protest in the
streets is when they feel themselves as victimes,
headscarf laws, Palestine, iraq, which is okay, but
why don't we ever go into the street to defend other
peoples right's? Muslims in Europe (at least in
France) don't even go into the streets when crimes are
done in the name of islam, like recently in Spain or
after 9/11. So, no wonder the non-muslim majority
doesn't think very good about us.... and a lot of
muslims don't think good about themselves neither...

One more comment about the wife beating thing.
Unfortunetly, the answer you get from imams about this
subject is far from satisfying. The best you can hear
is the miswaq story, which means, the husband should
only beat the woman lightly. Thank you!
At least they should explain it historically, but no.
How glad I was to have found another translation of
the verse by someone called Abd al-Hamid Abu Sulayman
who wrote something about it in the Journal of the
International Institute of Islamic Thought, 2001 and
claims that the right translation is not to beat but
"to leave". al-hamdulilah!

salam
jeanette




   --- itrath <[email protected]> a écrit : > salaam,
> 
> and that is the key issue here. the underlying
> concern is not for women's
> rights but for the racist idea of who belongs and
> who doesnt.  who is
> illegal and who isnt.  if he was inciting violence
> than he should be subject
> to criminal prosecution under the laws of whichever
> country.  the idea of,
> "we dont like him so lets boot him out", is an
> incredibly dangerous one.
> 
> this is a time for care and vigilance as our civil
> rights are under full
> attack.
> 
> itrath
> this crap
> 
> 
> 
> > From: "Afdhere Jama" <[email protected]>
> > Reply-To: Muslim community debate and discussion
> > <[email protected]>
> > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:51:15 -0700
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Hirshi
> > 
> > 
> > salam, talib,
> > 
> > to be honest, i did not feel sad that the darned
> imam was deported from
> > france. i felt bad that all whacked religious nuts
> were not. that is what
> > bothers me, that there is a rather discrimination
> launched between whackos.
> > 
> > i know of orthodox rabbis in america who teach
> horrible things about women,
> > gays, non-jews, etc. i also know of right wing
> christians who do about the
> > same. and their likes are all over the place, and
> most certainly in france.
> > but nobody deports them.
> > 
> > Afdhere Jama
> > Editorial Director
> > HURIYAH Publications
> > PO BOX 423343
> > San Francisco, CA 94142
> > tel: [1] 415.517.0055
> > e-mail: [email protected]
> > website: http://www.huriyahmag.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> From: "talib ul-Haq" <[email protected]>
> >> Reply-To: Muslim community debate and
> >>
>
discussion<[email protected]>
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Hirshi
> >> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:58:52 +0000
> >> 
> >> Salaams,
> >> 
> >> Far from being a sister, Irshi Ali has declared
> herself a non-believer on
> >> more than one occassion, including on a Dutch TV
> debate with Farid Esack.
> >> She really just uses her blackness in a terrible
> way to support a right
> >> wing agenda in the The Netherlands.
> >> 
> >> The larger and fascinating issue is the way some
> Muslims are being
> >> compelled to change deeply rooted belied such as
> that on wife beating their
> >> often under the pressure of greater scrutiny by
> the west. The case of the
> >> North African imam being deported from France for
> citing the Qur'anic text
> >> that conones spousal abouse for example.
> >> 
> >> The fact that such re-thinking is not dirven by
> internal ethical
> >> imperatives are sad.
> >> 
> >> Salaams
> >> 
> >> Talib
> >> 
> >>
>
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