Re: Hirshi

salaam Jeanette, Thank you for your very reasonable remarks and sharing of
your own experience in France. Eileen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeanette Jouili" <[email protected]>
To: "Muslim community debate and discussion"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Hirshi


> Salam everybody,
> this is the first time I participate in the PMN, I am
> very glad for having discovered it.
> I take the occasion of the last exchange of mails on
> the topics France and wife beatings to add my remarks.
> I live in france since five years and the country
> really became kind of islamophobic the last couple of
> years. Especially the whole headscarf story threw us
> way back. The debate which was hold last year was more
> polemical than everything and unfortunetly there were
> not so many reasonable muslim voices who had the
> chance to be heard.
> Today you can read all kind of crap about islam in the
> medias and it's okay, a well respected journalist is
> even able to claim publically that he is islamophobe,
> and it's okay too. Unfortunetly, this works cause you
> always have people of muslim background who confirm
> this stuff as "insiders who know the truth" .
> And unfortunetly, the muslim community in France is
> pretty conservative, and doesn't really know how to
> represent itself. They largely participated in a
> protest march against the headsarf law, organised by a
> radical group where his leader is known to have made
> some antisemitic and other radical remarks. And the
> ladies were shouting among other things "it's a right
> to be modest",which means implicitely that women
> without headscarf are not modest!? Is this a way to
> gain sympathies? The only times muslim protest in the
> streets is when they feel themselves as victimes,
> headscarf laws, Palestine, iraq, which is okay, but
> why don't we ever go into the street to defend other
> peoples right's? Muslims in Europe (at least in
> France) don't even go into the streets when crimes are
> done in the name of islam, like recently in Spain or
> after 9/11. So, no wonder the non-muslim majority
> doesn't think very good about us.... and a lot of
> muslims don't think good about themselves neither...
>
> One more comment about the wife beating thing.
> Unfortunetly, the answer you get from imams about this
> subject is far from satisfying. The best you can hear
> is the miswaq story, which means, the husband should
> only beat the woman lightly. Thank you!
> At least they should explain it historically, but no.
> How glad I was to have found another translation of
> the verse by someone called Abd al-Hamid Abu Sulayman
> who wrote something about it in the Journal of the
> International Institute of Islamic Thought, 2001 and
> claims that the right translation is not to beat but
> "to leave". al-hamdulilah!
>
> salam
> jeanette
>
>
>
>
>    --- itrath <[email protected]> a écrit : > salaam,
> >
> > and that is the key issue here. the underlying
> > concern is not for women's
> > rights but for the racist idea of who belongs and
> > who doesnt.  who is
> > illegal and who isnt.  if he was inciting violence
> > than he should be subject
> > to criminal prosecution under the laws of whichever
> > country.  the idea of,
> > "we dont like him so lets boot him out", is an
> > incredibly dangerous one.
> >
> > this is a time for care and vigilance as our civil
> > rights are under full
> > attack.
> >
> > itrath
> > this crap
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: "Afdhere Jama" <[email protected]>
> > > Reply-To: Muslim community debate and discussion
> > > <[email protected]>
> > > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:51:15 -0700
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Hirshi
> > >
> > >
> > > salam, talib,
> > >
> > > to be honest, i did not feel sad that the darned
> > imam was deported from
> > > france. i felt bad that all whacked religious nuts
> > were not. that is what
> > > bothers me, that there is a rather discrimination
> > launched between whackos.
> > >
> > > i know of orthodox rabbis in america who teach
> > horrible things about women,
> > > gays, non-jews, etc. i also know of right wing
> > christians who do about the
> > > same. and their likes are all over the place, and
> > most certainly in france.
> > > but nobody deports them.
> > >
> > > Afdhere Jama
> > > Editorial Director
> > > HURIYAH Publications
> > > PO BOX 423343
> > > San Francisco, CA 94142
> > > tel: [1] 415.517.0055
> > > e-mail: [email protected]
> > > website: http://www.huriyahmag.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: "talib ul-Haq" <[email protected]>
> > >> Reply-To: Muslim community debate and
> > >>
> >
> discussion<[email protected]>
> > >> To: [email protected]
> > >> Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Hirshi
> > >> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:58:52 +0000
> > >>
> > >> Salaams,
> > >>
> > >> Far from being a sister, Irshi Ali has declared
> > herself a non-believer on
> > >> more than one occassion, including on a Dutch TV
> > debate with Farid Esack.
> > >> She really just uses her blackness in a terrible
> > way to support a right
> > >> wing agenda in the The Netherlands.
> > >>
> > >> The larger and fascinating issue is the way some
> > Muslims are being
> > >> compelled to change deeply rooted belied such as
> > that on wife beating their
> > >> often under the pressure of greater scrutiny by
> > the west. The case of the
> > >> North African imam being deported from France for
> > citing the Qur'anic text
> > >> that conones spousal abouse for example.
> > >>
> > >> The fact that such re-thinking is not dirven by
> > internal ethical
> > >> imperatives are sad.
> > >>
> > >> Salaams
> > >>
> > >> Talib
> > >>
> > >>
> >
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