Re: Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31

For me the biggest problem is that North may have believed to be in a
25A case. If 25B does not allow to accept the change of call, the
situation becomes hard to analyse:

The withdrawn 3 Spade bid becomes UI to South and we have a lead penalty
against him. But for E/W we have to apply 11A; they are not allowed to
benefit, neither from the knowledge about the intended and withdrawn 3S,
nor from the lead penalty.







Am 13.09.2018 um 16:56 schrieb Sven Pran:
> Because once North calls (for instance Pass) over the 3NT bid by West it
> becomes East that is in turn to call (unless the 3NT bid is accepted as
> an unintended call).
> 
>  
> 
> In this case the 3NT bid by West clearly did not satisfy the conditions
> for an unintended call so the 3H bid by West at this time is a  call at
> East’s turn to call, i.e. a call out of turn.
> 
>  
> 
> Law 25A applies to unintended  calls, but notice that the final result
> will be the same whether North (incorrectly) is given the opportunity to
> accept the 3H bid as a change of his 3NT bid or (correctly) use his
> right to accept the 3H bid out of turn. The main difference is what
> effect the irregularity may have on the (following) auction and/or play.
> 
>  
> 
> In either case North is allowed to eventually make his own desired 3S  bid.
> 
>  
> 
> *Fra:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *På vegne av*
> Gordon Rainsford
> *Sendt:* torsdag 13. september 2018 16.01
> *Til:* [email protected]
> *Kopi:* BLML <[email protected]>
> *Emne:* Re: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31
> 
>  
> 
> Why would you want to pretend something was a call out of turn when it
> isn't? The terms of the original question told us that it was an
> intended change of call.
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:27 AM Sven Pran <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
>     Why not apply Law 31B1?
>     West's changed bid of 3H is actually a call out of rotation at
>     East's turn
>     to call, this changed call stands and North is now in turn to call.
>     North is free to bid 3S and East may then make any legal call.
>     Law 16C2 now applies.
>     (North do not have the option to refuse West's change of call!)
> 
>     -----Opprinnelig melding-----
>     Fra: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> På vegne av
>     Volker
>     Walther
>     Sendt: onsdag 12. september 2018 17.53
>     Til: blml <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     Emne: [Blml] Law 25B1: Between 25A and 31
> 
>     When does the right (25B1) to accept an intended change of call cease?
> 
>     The bidding
> 
>     W      N     E       S
>     2NT    P     3T(a)   P    (a) Puppet-Stayman
>     3NT*  p(1)                (*) Meant to show 5 hearts.
> 
>     Now West remembers that he has to bid 3H to show his hearts and
>     replaces his
>     bid. North wants to accept this change; he is wants to bid 3S.
> 
> 
>     If 3NT had been unintended, we are in law 25A, 3S is an allowed bid.
>     p(1) is cancelled and becomes UI to E/W.
>     Especially we have 25A1, telling us that a replacement is allowed as
>     long
>     partner did not  bid, and we 25A6, telling us how to deal with
>     p(1): it may be withdrawn.
> 
> 
>     If 3H  is meant to be an intended bid that should be given in the next
>     round,  we are in 31 (and 27). Again N is allowed to bid 3S, but
>     this time
>     p(1) is not cancelled and it is AI to E/W.
> 
>     But now we are somewhere between 25B1, 25B2 and 31.
>     31.C tells us, that a bid OOR shall be treated as a change of call,
>     according to law 25 as long as LHO did not call.
> 
>     25B1. is telling us, that a substition may be accepted; unfortunately it
>     does not tell when this right is ceasing.
>     Did North forfeit his right to accept a change of call, when he called
>     p(1) over 3NT, throwing us do 25B2, or is acceptance according to
>     25B1 still
>     possible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     --
>     Volker Walther
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-- 
Volker Walther
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