Re: OpenGL 3.0

Not realistic.Open Source sucks. First, Youll never get full documentatio=
n=20
from ATI and Nvidia and other HW vendors  for their hardware , second,  s=
uch=20
a framerwork would be full of bugs,  would have bad support, and will=20
degenerate sooner or later into a nigtmare source tree to maintain.

Above everything,  it does not solve the fundamanetal problem.  That beei=
ng=20
*THE STANDARD*. Thats managed by ARB, and whatever you implement in your=20
framework, must be consistent with ARB, if want to call it OpenGl. Otherw=
ise=20
we can call it FantasyGl  :P


----- Original Message -----=20
To: "Multiple recipients of list OPENGL-GAMEDEV-L"=20
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 1:25 PM


>I didn't suggest for anyone not on linux to go linux, neither did I
> suggest that MS would support the Gallium framework.
>
> I did suggest that if we want an alternative to whining, there is work
> being done on hardware accelerated drivers for OGL outside nVidia HQ -
> and someone with access to the Vista DDK could possibly plug that work
> into the mature driver framework of windows. The linux/BSD versions of
> the framework allready have people from Intel and AMD/ATI working on
> them, so it's not as if it would be enthusiasts-only. The key would be
> developer interest, and DDK accessibility. (MS made the DDK available
> for free for 2000/XP, but I don't know about Vista.)
>
> /Filip
>
> Dan Partelly skrev:
>> I highly doubt that anything OpenSource is the answer. Truth is, i=20
>> wouldnt
>> thouch Linux with a 8 feet yard fishing pole nowdays.
>> OpenSource producs dont present to me too much appeal.
>>
>> Let alone the fact that Vista and other closed source OSs will never=20
>> offer
>> you video driver facilites to use a Galium framework. Why would they ?
>> they  estabilished driver framework are mature.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----=20
>> To: "Multiple recipients of list OPENGL-GAMEDEV-L"
>> <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:25 AM
>>
>>
>>> It seems it's the lurkers' day today.
>>>
>>> The new driver framework used on free OSes, Gallium, could be of
>>> interest here. Basically it's divided into 3 parts: The hardware part=
,
>>> the OS part and the lib frontend (ie OGL). So, assuming someone would=
 be
>>> interested - I think it would be possible to write a windows part for
>>> the Gallium drivers. IIRC the newest ATI drivers, as well as the Nove=
au
>>> effort is implemented this way (and Intel?). Also, this would make it
>>> possible to build an OGL ES frontend to the hardware too.
>>>
>>> Obviously this wouldn't support the newest nVidia cards right away, b=
ut
>>> with Intel and AMD/ATI being good with documentation - but I suppose
>>> having a free OGL driver for windows might raise the incentive for
>>> nVidia to open up a bit.
>>>
>>> /Filip
>>>
>>> Dan Partelly skrev:
>>>>>> And I still remember an   nVidia exec (forget who) at CGDC holding=
 a
>>>>>> printout of their latest GL
>>>>>> extension spec and telling the room they 'weren't going to keep do=
ing
>>>>>> this forever'.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, but they did so far , as opposed to ATI who practically does=
nt
>>>> give
>>>> a shit about OpenGL. No extensions to expose advanced functionality =
of
>>>> the
>>>> boards,
>>>> serious bugs in GL drivers and the list can continue. So from this=20
>>>> point
>>>> of
>>>> view Nvidia >> ATI. And it was one of the reasons I always told ppl =
not
>>>> to
>>>> buy any kind of ATI products and many have listened, thanks god.
>>>>
>>>> Its understandable Nvidia doesnt want to do that forever, after all =
its=20
>>>> a
>>>> great money sunk, especially when ARB keeps talking and failing to
>>>> deliver
>>>> year after year.
>>>> What better money sink you want that endless talks and wasted time ?
>>>>
>>>> ARB should wake up from his slumber before it too late.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----=20
>>>> To: "Multiple recipients of list OPENGL-GAMEDEV-L"
>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 3:15 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Delurking here to respond to this - I've always loved OpenGL, and o=
ur
>>>>> current prototype is implemented using GL, or more specifically CGF=
X
>>>>> over
>>>>> GL.  What I've seen of 3.0 has added hiring a DirectX programmer to=
 my
>>>>> plans for next year.  Its pretty obvious the ARB [still] doesn't ca=
re
>>>>> much
>>>>> for the game industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, the idea of forking GL as OGL-ES + DX10 features sounds=20
>>>>> like
>>>>> a
>>>>> great model to keep GL as a viable cross platform game API.  The ma=
in
>>>>> problem would be getting nVidia and ATI on board, which is complica=
ted
>>>>> by
>>>>> their ARB ties and the reasonable expectations of strong pushback f=
rom
>>>>> the
>>>>> ARB and Microsoft.  From a business side, ATI and nVidia would have=
 a
>>>>> hard
>>>>> time justifying supporting the effort, as they already have a sizab=
le
>>>>> sunk
>>>>> investment in GL and DirectX drivers.  Seems like a chicken and egg
>>>>> problem - how to justify writing the (closed source) drivers for a
>>>>> market
>>>>> that doesn't exist yet. > Jon Mayo wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:30 AM, Sylvain Vignaud <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:>
>>>>>> Lorenzo Pastrana wrote:>>>> On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 03:40 -0800, Dan
>>>>>> Partelly wrote:>>>>>> =EF=BB=BF yeah right, Truth is, OpenGl is bu=
tchered
>>>>>> slowly.>>>> Well, agreed.>> But Bill's post explicitly said that h=
e
>>>>>> knew
>>>>>> _some_ think OpenGL is dead>> and all the snuff ... in order to av=
oid
>>>>>> those kind of replies not to call>> for them.>> All my post was ab=
out
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> that Sylvain's position (being so biased and>> definitive in addit=
ion
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be inappropriate) does nothing but harm.>> Well you would have to
>>>>>> define
>>>>>> "biased" here. If you knew me, you would know> how much I loved=20
>>>>>> OpenGL.
>>>>>> And I gave links to the OpenGL forums where lots of> 3D programmer=
s
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> to use OGL did complain, and where I still post and help> people, =
to
>>>>>> support my point.>> And my previous message about OGL-ES was serio=
us=20
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> only need this> interface plus some addition/extension to match=20
>>>>>> D3D10+
>>>>>> feature set and to> get rid of the obsolete calls. It wou!
>>>>> ld!
>>>>>>   probably be an easier start for lots> of people, driver-makers=20
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> have a much easier life, etc.>> Actually what we really need is=20
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> the ARB stop discussing forever in> closed committee, telling one
>>>>>> thing,
>>>>>> shutting up 1 year and a half then> doing the contrary, and things=
=20
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> that. =3D(>>> ----- FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:>
>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL>> -->=20
>>>>>> Author:
>>>>>> Sylvain Vignaud>  INET: [email protected]>
>>>>>> Interesting idea about OpenGL ES. Is anyone willing to take that
>>>>>> ideaand
>>>>>> run with it? I believe Linux has some support for ES, from what Ir=
ead
>>>>>> about in a project called "gameBoXlinux" and "MyOS x-less".
>>>>>> -- Jon Mayo<[email protected]>
>>>>>> -----=20
>>>>>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>>>>>   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----=20
>>>>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>>>>  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>>>>
>>>>> --=20
>>>>> Author: Kerry Bonin
>>>>>  INET: [email protected]
>>>>>
>>>>> Fat City Hosting, San Diego, California -- http://www.fatcity.com
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
>>>>> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>>>>> to: [email protected] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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>>>>> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>>>>> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>>>>
>>>> -----=20
>>>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>>>   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>>>
>>> -----=20
>>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>>  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>>
>>> --=20
>>> Author: Filip Joelsson
>>>  INET: [email protected]
>>>
>>> Fat City Hosting, San Diego, California -- http://www.fatcity.com
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>>> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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>>> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>>> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>>
>>
>> -----=20
>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>
>
> -----=20
> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>
> --=20
> Author: Filip Joelsson
>  INET: [email protected]
>
> Fat City Hosting, San Diego, California -- http://www.fatcity.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [email protected] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).=20


-----=20
FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL

--=20
Author: Dan Partelly
  INET: [email protected]

Fat City Hosting, San Diego, California -- http://www.fatcity.com
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