Re: OpenGL 3.0

I didn't suggest for anyone not on linux to go linux, neither did I
suggest that MS would support the Gallium framework.

I did suggest that if we want an alternative to whining, there is work
being done on hardware accelerated drivers for OGL outside nVidia HQ -
and someone with access to the Vista DDK could possibly plug that work
into the mature driver framework of windows. The linux/BSD versions of
the framework allready have people from Intel and AMD/ATI working on
them, so it's not as if it would be enthusiasts-only. The key would be
developer interest, and DDK accessibility. (MS made the DDK available
for free for 2000/XP, but I don't know about Vista.)

/Filip

Dan Partelly skrev:
> I highly doubt that anything OpenSource is the answer. Truth is, i woul=
dnt=20
> thouch Linux with a 8 feet yard fishing pole nowdays.
> OpenSource producs dont present to me too much appeal.
>=20
> Let alone the fact that Vista and other closed source OSs will never of=
fer=20
> you video driver facilites to use a Galium framework. Why would they ?
> they  estabilished driver framework are mature.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> To: "Multiple recipients of list OPENGL-GAMEDEV-L"=20
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:25 AM
>=20
>=20
>> It seems it's the lurkers' day today.
>>
>> The new driver framework used on free OSes, Gallium, could be of
>> interest here. Basically it's divided into 3 parts: The hardware part,
>> the OS part and the lib frontend (ie OGL). So, assuming someone would =
be
>> interested - I think it would be possible to write a windows part for
>> the Gallium drivers. IIRC the newest ATI drivers, as well as the Novea=
u
>> effort is implemented this way (and Intel?). Also, this would make it
>> possible to build an OGL ES frontend to the hardware too.
>>
>> Obviously this wouldn't support the newest nVidia cards right away, bu=
t
>> with Intel and AMD/ATI being good with documentation - but I suppose
>> having a free OGL driver for windows might raise the incentive for
>> nVidia to open up a bit.
>>
>> /Filip
>>
>> Dan Partelly skrev:
>>>>> And I still remember an   nVidia exec (forget who) at CGDC holding =
a
>>>>> printout of their latest GL
>>>>> extension spec and telling the room they 'weren't going to keep doi=
ng
>>>>> this forever'.
>>>
>>> Indeed, but they did so far , as opposed to ATI who practically doesn=
t=20
>>> give
>>> a shit about OpenGL. No extensions to expose advanced functionality o=
f=20
>>> the
>>> boards,
>>> serious bugs in GL drivers and the list can continue. So from this po=
int=20
>>> of
>>> view Nvidia >> ATI. And it was one of the reasons I always told ppl n=
ot=20
>>> to
>>> buy any kind of ATI products and many have listened, thanks god.
>>>
>>> Its understandable Nvidia doesnt want to do that forever, after all i=
ts a
>>> great money sunk, especially when ARB keeps talking and failing to=20
>>> deliver
>>> year after year.
>>> What better money sink you want that endless talks and wasted time ?
>>>
>>> ARB should wake up from his slumber before it too late.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----=20
>>> To: "Multiple recipients of list OPENGL-GAMEDEV-L"
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 3:15 AM
>>>
>>>
>>>> Delurking here to respond to this - I've always loved OpenGL, and ou=
r
>>>> current prototype is implemented using GL, or more specifically CGFX=
=20
>>>> over
>>>> GL.  What I've seen of 3.0 has added hiring a DirectX programmer to =
my
>>>> plans for next year.  Its pretty obvious the ARB [still] doesn't car=
e=20
>>>> much
>>>> for the game industry.
>>>>
>>>> That said, the idea of forking GL as OGL-ES + DX10 features sounds l=
ike=20
>>>> a
>>>> great model to keep GL as a viable cross platform game API.  The mai=
n
>>>> problem would be getting nVidia and ATI on board, which is complicat=
ed=20
>>>> by
>>>> their ARB ties and the reasonable expectations of strong pushback fr=
om=20
>>>> the
>>>> ARB and Microsoft.  From a business side, ATI and nVidia would have =
a=20
>>>> hard
>>>> time justifying supporting the effort, as they already have a sizabl=
e=20
>>>> sunk
>>>> investment in GL and DirectX drivers.  Seems like a chicken and egg
>>>> problem - how to justify writing the (closed source) drivers for a=20
>>>> market
>>>> that doesn't exist yet. > Jon Mayo wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:30 AM, Sylvain Vignaud <[email protected]>=20
>>>>> wrote:>
>>>>> Lorenzo Pastrana wrote:>>>> On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 03:40 -0800, Dan
>>>>> Partelly wrote:>>>>>> =EF=BB=BF yeah right, Truth is, OpenGl is but=
chered
>>>>> slowly.>>>> Well, agreed.>> But Bill's post explicitly said that he=
=20
>>>>> knew
>>>>> _some_ think OpenGL is dead>> and all the snuff ... in order to avo=
id
>>>>> those kind of replies not to call>> for them.>> All my post was abo=
ut=20
>>>>> is
>>>>> that Sylvain's position (being so biased and>> definitive in additi=
on=20
>>>>> to
>>>>> be inappropriate) does nothing but harm.>> Well you would have to=20
>>>>> define
>>>>> "biased" here. If you knew me, you would know> how much I loved Ope=
nGL.
>>>>> And I gave links to the OpenGL forums where lots of> 3D programmers=
=20
>>>>> used
>>>>> to use OGL did complain, and where I still post and help> people, t=
o
>>>>> support my point.>> And my previous message about OGL-ES was seriou=
s :=20
>>>>> we
>>>>> only need this> interface plus some addition/extension to match D3D=
10+
>>>>> feature set and to> get rid of the obsolete calls. It wou!
>>>> ld!
>>>>>   probably be an easier start for lots> of people, driver-makers wo=
uld
>>>>> have a much easier life, etc.>> Actually what we really need is hav=
ing
>>>>> the ARB stop discussing forever in> closed committee, telling one=20
>>>>> thing,
>>>>> shutting up 1 year and a half then> doing the contrary, and things =
like
>>>>> that. =3D(>>> ----- FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:>
>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL>> --> Auth=
or:
>>>>> Sylvain Vignaud>  INET: [email protected]>
>>>>> Interesting idea about OpenGL ES. Is anyone willing to take that=20
>>>>> ideaand
>>>>> run with it? I believe Linux has some support for ES, from what Ire=
ad
>>>>> about in a project called "gameBoXlinux" and "MyOS x-less".
>>>>> -- Jon Mayo<[email protected]>
>>>>> -----=20
>>>>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>>>>   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----=20
>>>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>>>  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>>>
>>>> --=20
>>>> Author: Kerry Bonin
>>>>  INET: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>> Fat City Hosting, San Diego, California -- http://www.fatcity.com
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>>>> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>>>> to: [email protected] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>>>> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB OPENGL-GAMEDEV-L
>>>> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>>>> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>>>
>>> -----=20
>>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>>   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>>
>> -----=20
>> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>>  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>>
>> --=20
>> Author: Filip Joelsson
>>  INET: [email protected]
>>
>> Fat City Hosting, San Diego, California -- http://www.fatcity.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>> to: [email protected] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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>> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).=20
>=20
>=20
> -----=20
> FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
>   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL
>=20

-----=20
FAQ and OpenGL Resources at:
  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9956/OpenGL

--=20
Author: Filip Joelsson
  INET: [email protected]

Fat City Hosting, San Diego, California -- http://www.fatcity.com
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