Re: The entry competence level for graphicsprogrammers
Greg Stelmack <[email protected]> Mon, 26 Sep 2011 07:40:06 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.games.devel.sweng |
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--===============0706225421== Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A10BCA7DBB6BMDCMAILCMS01u_" --_000_AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A10BCA7DBB6BMDCMAILCMS01u_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the game demo, having one shows: 1) An actual interest in making games. Anecdotally the best game progr= ammers seem to be those who also like to code for fun. If you really want i= nto the game industry, you're going to be making games anyway. Even if it's= a simple solitaire or Yahtzee game, you're probably doing SOMETHING to mes= s around with. It shows a true interest, separate from those who think "I w= ant to make cool graphics!" or "game programming would be fun, you get to p= lay games all day, right?" folks. 2) The ability to complete a project. Lots of folks don't seem to know= what it takes to actually FINISH a title. I wouldn't say it's a requirement, but it sure helps for those trying to br= eak in. I would also agree that if money is your main goal, stick with investment b= anking. Sure, you CAN get rich making games, but the odds are not in your f= avor. I could be making a ton more money if I had stuck with investment ban= king (my first job out of school), but not having nearly as much fun. And finally, I'll echo another point made earlier: game programming !=3D gr= aphics programming. So many budding game programmers seem to think that. Th= ere are sound programmers, physics programmers, AI programmers, UI programm= ers, network programmers, tools programmers, lots of jobs that never touch = graphics, and some that touch it occasionally. Games are far more than just= pretty graphics, despite what reviewers and much of the buying public seem= to say... From: [email protected] [mailto:sweng-gamedev-b= [email protected]] On Behalf Of Massimo Del Zotto Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Sweng-Gamedev] The entry competence level for graphicsprogram= mers I'm interested in that. Back when I was in Uni, I tried without success to satisfy both academic re= quirements and real life needs. I eventually figured out I needed to drop o= ne to focus on the other. I think nobody is interested in average people. Statistics are rather clear= on what an 'average' programmer is. I'd like to hear other elaborations on this experience-materializing demo p= roof. Thank you Massimo Del Zotto 2011/9/25 Alen Ladavac <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Starting level presumes _at least_ many months of hard work. If not years. = Advanced is decades of hard work. We were previously open to discussing wit= h people out of uni even if they had no previous experience, but lately - m= y stance is that if you don't want to invest into making a demo, then you p= robably won't have the will to stick to it in the project. We are talking a= bout gamedev programming, not run of the mill web apps, right? Most of thos= e who are really talented do their demos either just for kicks, or for assi= gnments, even during the uni. Those who don't are suspect for "not really i= nterested" in my book. Good people are into this for the experience not jus= t for money. JM2C.... Sunday, September 25, 2011, 4:51:26 PM, you wrote: > That sounds like a lot of information that you'd learn after years of wor= king on games. I hate to say it but really unless the original poster is a= n absolute genius or willing to put in many months of hard work he's just g= oing to have to start in entry level. > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Watte < [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Sender: [email protected]<mailto:sweng-ga= [email protected]>: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 21:35:15 > To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]= om>> > Reply-To: [email protected]<mailto:sweng-gamedev@midnightry= der.com> > Subject: Re: [Sweng-Gamedev] The entry competence level for graphics > programmers > _______________________________________________ > Sweng-Gamedev mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]= ryder.com> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "lists.midnightryder= .com" claiming to be > http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-ga= medev-midnightryder.com<http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-g= amedev-midnightryder.com> > _______________________________________________ > Sweng-Gamedev mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]= ryder.com> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "lists.midnightryder= .com" claiming to be > http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-ga= medev-midnightryder.com<http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-g= amedev-midnightryder.com> -- Best regards, Alen mailto:[email protected] _______________________________________________ Sweng-Gamedev mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]= der.com> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com --_000_AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A10BCA7DBB6BMDCMAILCMS01u_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph {mso-style-priority:34; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:580066672; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:-158833032 67698705 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698= 713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;} @list l0:level1 {mso-level-text:"%1\)"; mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DWordSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>On the game demo, having one shows:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 = lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'= ><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&n= bsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:= "Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>An actual interest in making games. Anecdotally the best gam= e programmers seem to be those who also like to code for fun. If you really w= ant into the game industry, you’re going to be making games anyway. Even = if it’s a simple solitaire or Yahtzee game, you’re probably doing SOMETHING to mess around with. It shows a true interest, separate from thos= e who think “I want to make cool graphics!” or “game programming would be fun, you get to play games all day, right?” folk= s.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 = lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'= ><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&n= bsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:= "Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>The ability to complete a project. Lots of folks don’t seem to know what it takes to actually FINISH a title.<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>I wouldn’t say it’s a requirement, but it sure h= elps for those trying to break in.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>I would also agree that if money is your main goal, stick wi= th investment banking. Sure, you CAN get rich making games, but the odds are n= ot in your favor. I could be making a ton more money if I had stuck with investment banking (my first job out of school), but not having nearly as m= uch fun.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>And finally, I’ll echo another point made earlier: gam= e programming !=3D graphics programming. So many budding game programmers see= m to think that. There are sound programmers, physics programmers, AI programmer= s, UI programmers, network programmers, tools programmers, lots of jobs that n= ever touch graphics, and some that touch it occasionally. Games are far more tha= n just pretty graphics, despite what reviewers and much of the buying public = seem to say…<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma= ","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>= Massimo Del Zotto<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 26, 2011 2:37 AM<br> <b>To:</b> [email protected]<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sweng-Gamedev] The entry competence level for graphicsprogrammers<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I'm interested in that.<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Back when I was in Uni, I tried without success to sat= isfy both academic requirements and real life needs. I eventually figured out I needed to drop one to focus on the other.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I think nobody is interested in average people. Statis= tics are rather clear on what an 'average' programmer is.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I'd like to hear other elaborations on this experience-materializing demo proof.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Massimo Del Zotto<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>2011/9/25 Alen Ladavac <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>><o:p></o:p= ></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne= w"'>Starting level presumes _at least_ many months of hard work. If not years. Advanced = is decades of hard work. We were previously open to discussing with people out= of uni even if they had no previous experience, but lately - my stance is that= if you don't want to invest into making a demo, then you probably won't have t= he will to stick to it in the project. We are talking about gamedev programmin= g, not run of the mill web apps, right? Most of those who are really talented = do their demos either just for kicks, or for assignments, even during the uni. Those who don't are suspect for "not really interested" in my boo= k. Good people are into this for the experience not just for money. JM2C....<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne= w"'><br> <br> Sunday, September 25, 2011, 4:51:26 PM, you wrote:<br> <br> <b><span style=3D'color:maroon'>> That sounds like a lot of information = that you'd learn after years of working on games. I hate to say it but rea= lly unless the original poster is an absolute genius or willing to put in many months of hard work he's just going to have to start in entry level. <= br> > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network<br> <br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: Jon Watte <</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">= [email protected]</a><b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:maroon'>><br> > Sender: </span></b><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D= "_blank">[email protected]</a><b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:maroon'>: Sat, 24 = Sep 2011 21:35:15 <br> > To: <</span></b><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><b><span style=3D'font= -size: 9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:maroon'>><br> > Reply-To: </span></b><a href=3D"mailto:sweng-gamedev@midnightryde= r.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br> <b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:maroon'>&= gt; Subject: Re: [Sweng-Gamedev] The entry competence level for graphics<br> > programmers<br> <br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Sweng-Gamedev mailing list<br> </span></b><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">> [email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightr= yder.com" target=3D"_blank"><b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne= w"; color:red'>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "lists.midnightryder.com" claiming to be</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> > http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com= </span></a><br> <br> <br> <b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:maroon'>&= gt; _______________________________________________<br> > Sweng-Gamedev mailing list<br> </span></b><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">> [email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightr= yder.com" target=3D"_blank"><b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne= w"; color:red'>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "lists.midnightryder.com" claiming to be</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> > http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com= </span></a><br> <br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";col= or:silver'>-- <br> Best regards,<br> Alen </span></i><span style=3D'color:#888888'>= <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">mailto:alenl-ml@crot= eam.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br> _______________________________________________<br> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Sweng-Gamedev@list= s.midnightryder.com</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightr= yder.com" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev= -midnightryder.com</a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </body> </html> --_000_AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A10BCA7DBB6BMDCMAILCMS01u_-- --===============0706225421== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Sweng-Gamedev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com --===============0706225421==--