Re: Chosokabe EOG

Well, just a comment: Asakura-Oda did not have hostile intentions=20
against Takeda; in fact Mike Asakura suggested teh 3-way alliance,=20
something that I didn't see with such good eyes initially because it=20
enclosed my power among the other two - yet it allowed for an easy=20
start, seemingly.

We just felt more and more distrusting of his play: his very start,=20
double attacking Hojo and Uesugi was something we couldn't understand=20
but his misinformation strategy was so total that just mined our scarce=20
trust in him. Eventually Asakura asked me to stab him, what I did=20
thinking in my own safety (South Shinano's posession) - but was a clear=20
strategical error.

The T-O relation was focused in taking down Hojo, yet Takeda seemed to=20
want all with the pretext of a "balanced alliance", while I blamed on=20
him that he was making war to all around him unnecessarily and was=20
fearful that he turned on me at the first chance, specially as half he=20
said happened to result a lie, turn after turn.

After my strike, I imposed my conditions on Takeda: he would be my=20
eastern margrave while I tried to shake Choso off my shoulders. As I say=20
the decissive turn was very early when Choso seemingly persuaded Asakura=20
not to build F Set - only to attck it inmediately after. Once Settsu was=20
blockaded, the game was lost for the A-O alliance.

Luis.

Hester, Benjamin T CPT USA USAREUR 7A escribi=F3:
> Let me first and foremost apologize to our second Mori player - I hate=20
> to show someone willing to take a replacement position my gratitude by=20
> immediately stabbing and eliminating them, but it was unfortunately=20
> indispensable to my plans.  And I certainly negotiated to no end with=20
> the first Mori player, as Shimazu/Chosokabe alliances often result in=20
> Chosokabe being the junior partner, as was the case here.=20
>=20=20
> On Shimazu - to his credit, he did not declare open war on me after=20
> the early stab in Bungo.  That was something of a "gentleman's=20
> disagreement" on whether or not his fleets belonged on the east coast=20
> of Kyushu at all.  He felt they did, I was in no way favorable to the=20
> idea.  However, I think we were somewhat forced into an alliance with=20
> each other as Mori #1 grew increasingly non-responsive.  From then=20
> forward, I suppose our alliance was rather unshakable, though I truly=20
> did consider some of Oda's overtures, rather than rejecting them=20
> outright.  Which brings us to...
>=20=20
> On Oda - If his diplomacy had included a little more carrot, and less=20
> stick, I might have worked quite well with him.  And in truth, I had=20
> every intention in the beginning of honoring my pledge not to drive=20
> north against him.  Mori's comatose state and Shimazu's rapid advance=20
> made that impossible - I literally had nowhere else to make gains.  I=20
> thoroughly enjoyed what he apparently did not - the slow tactical=20
> advance that accepted some risk (the loss of the strategically=20
> invaluable Kanto Sea) in favor of solid gains (Yamato and Yamashiro,=20
> and later Omi)  Oda found this boring, whereas it's my favorite part=20
> of Diplomacy - those 50/50 odds where you just have to guess whether=20
> your opponent will support his unit, or cut the support of your=20
> attack.  I must confess that a stalemate of some sort was probably=20
> inevitable, though I don't think our northern drive had petered out=20
> just yet.  I pay respects to Oda's naval tactics and the strength of=20
> his diplomacy with Asakura and Uesugi.  I thought that Uesugi would=20
> certainly turn on Oda and work with me - he certainly would have=20
> gotten the lions share of the spoils.=20
>=20=20
> On Asakura - Oh, what might have been.  If only I could have persuaded=20
> him to move earlier on Mori, what a power he would be today.  He was=20
> right to fear Ueusgi's strength as well - but does anyone besides me=20
> notice what a SLOW start Uesugi's position allows him?  Everyone seems=20
> to speak of how untouchable his position is in this game - so is=20
> Britain in Standard.  And just like Britain, Uesugi's position is very=20
> slow to start.  Uesugi and Hojo are the only two positions that really=20
> have to backtrack in the wrong direction to get their easy gains - a=20
> weakness Takeda, Asakura, and Oda can readily exploit, if they work=20
> together.  And this was the weakness of the Oda/Asakura alliance in my=20
> opinion - that they split their attention north and south rather than=20
> shoring up defenses in one direction and fully committing to an attack=20
> in the other...which brings us to...
>=20=20
> On Takeda - I would not criticize Takeda's play at all in this game.=20=20
> He did the best he could against an apparently hostile Uesugi, and=20
> rather silent Hojo, and Asakura and Oda that apparently both intended=20
> treachery against him.  There's always an early target in every game=20
> of Dip, and this time it was Takeda - that he survived as long as he=20
> did is a testament to his skill in negotiating, tactics, and strategy.
>=20=20
> On Uesugi, the master diplomat - Who can criticize the leader?  He=20
> played his position marvelously, took advantage of every opportunity=20
> that I saw, both tactical and diplomatic, and left no avenue open for=20
> attack.  His attacks found every weakness and exploited it for steady=20
> material gain.  His most recent attack on Echizen was a textbook=20
> example of watching for patterns in orders and picking apart the=20
> support.=20
>=20=20
> On the GM - Stephen, you're the best.  Thanks for GMing this game, I=20
> know it was a tremendous commitment of time (and patience!) with this=20
> many players.  It was an enjoyable experience throughout - your=20
> website made everything smooth and easy, the reminder emails were a=20
> great help, and I certainly hope to play Dip with you in the future,=20
> or perhaps again in a game you GM.
>=20=20
> To all - it was great fun - truthfully, I am honored to have played=20
> with and against such worthy opponents.  The remarks I have received=20
> on design have not been ignored, though I fear it may be a minute=20
> before my job allows me the time to sufficiently revise the game design.
>=20=20
> Chosokabe-san
>=20=20
> Benjamin T. Hester
> CPT, QM
> XO, Alpha Company, 7-159th AVN REGT (AVIM)
> DSN 314-467-4225
> */"Have 'em call me sir, I'll make this go away..."/*
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Luis [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Mon 5/29/2006 11:14 PM
> *To:* Stephen Worthy
> *Cc:* Robert O'Neill; Mike Morris; Joseph Schmidt; Henri Bodart;=20
> cat23-1000; Hester, Benjamin T CPT USA USAREUR 7A; Adam Levy;=20
> [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: 1096 Draw agreed
>
> Just that I'm happy of having one obligation less :-)
>
> Now let's play another ;-)
>
> I'd love to hear comments from the creator and also from the other=20
> players. I've already stated my opinion on the game design and so on,=20
> so let's write a small EoG:
>
> Starting: "great": two recent Dip-acquitances at my sides: I had just=20
> shared board with Joel and Mike in successive rounds of Maharajihad=20
> tournament. I had mad life impossible for Joel in the first game so I=20
> rather expected revenge. Mike had been sort of an ally in the second=20
> game but I didn't know how could it be being so close side by side.=20
> They were natural choices but on the other hand what I saw as natural=20
> areas for eventual expansion.
>
> I was very wary of Uesugi by definition: I see Uesugi as the "Russia"=20
> of this variant and without the weaknesses of standard Russia. So,=20
> while I treated with him and even "sold secrets" to him, I treated to=20
> keep a U-T balance while trying to capture Hojo centers and secure=20
> southern coastal domination, something that Takeda made particularly=20
> difficult always disturbing my attempts at Izu.
>
> On the other hand, I saw far away countries of Shimazu, Chosokabe and=20
> Mori as a distant problem. I was offered a peace by Choso and, though=20
> I tried to contact Mori and Shimazu, I got no valid reply. The second=20
> Mori, Adam, could have been a good option, as I knew him from another=20
> game and knew he was fairly reliable. But for that time Mori was=20
> without options.
>
> So I based my strategy in:
> a) Peace with Chosokabe
> b) triple alliance with Asakura and Takeda
> c) sporadic contacts with the rest (though only Uesugi was of some=20
> use: why do people play Diplomacy if they don't like to bargain and=20
> negotiate? =3D-O )
>
> My plan was just to secure a bit of Hojo and then possibly rush onto=20
> either one of my allies or maybe Choso, though this latter option=20
> seemed unlikely to work without Shimazu's help. I also managed to=20
> scuttle Mino, a province that supposedly was to stay neutral forever=20
> and ever. This made me vulnerable to stabs from my allies but also=20
> made them vulnerable to my treachery.
>
> For that time I was so upset by Takeda's obstructionism, mad play and=20
> evident lies that I decided to hit him badly. Too much probably. I=20
> secured South Shinano, what made me then virtually invulnerable... but=20
> I also made Uesugi big.
>
> Meanwhile I had just realized that Chosokabe wanted my lands and there=20
> was no way to dissuade him nor to persuade silent Shimazu to change=20
> alliances. So I had to keep many troops in the Kai area just to fence=20
> Choso off my waters. We were like that the rest of the game as you know..=
.
>
> I had suggested Asakura to build a fleet in Settsu then but he=20
> prefered to build an army elsewhere. I believe that was the choice=20
> that decided the game (c. 1572/73): that fleet would have made Choso=20
> fall back and Shimazu would have either fallen with him or been forced=20
> to deal with me. Controlling Osaka Bay would have allowed both Oda and=20
> Asakura the best position to fight for the no-man's-land of Ina and=20
> nearby provinces... and beyond.
>
> As Takeda remained as a border realm holding back the Uesugi-Hojo=20
> fragile alliance with my late help, we could maybe have rushed=20
> westward and change the destiny... it was all on that early decission=20
> of building a fleet in Settsu when in time - I believe.
>
> After that, I just had not enough ships nor room to fight against=20
> Choso and, while the war wasn't decided in that static naval front,=20
> the impossibility of supporting any Asakuran advance by the south or=20
> stealing Chosokabe's centers made us stay in a defenssive attitude.
>
> For me the game ended there. Or rather soon after, as Asakura's=20
> centers, starting with Settsu, fell to our foes.
>
> ...
>
> As it was clear that neither Asakura was falling down by moments and=20
> the alliance wasn't very enthusiatic about any possibilities, I=20
> decided to help his end, as I would have thanked anyone helping mine=20
> (except from Choso, as he had betrayed his word with me ;-) ). But=20
> that was just doing something: pawning around while waiting for the=20
> unavoidable.
>
> So far my story.
>
> Now yours.
>
> Luis.
>
> Stephen Worthy escribi=F3:
>> Right that's it, just heard from Joe, so the DIAS draw is agreed.  I=20
>> don't know if the previous commentaries have been considered EOG=20
>> statements, but if anyone has any more, do send them out.
>>=20=20
>> Stephen
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/stephen_worthy/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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