Re: Marine killed in his own home

I don't disagree, which is why I think that the process they use to
determine when to raid and what level of force to bring is open for scrutiny
and complaint.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Johne Cook
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:54 PM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Marine killed in his own home

He worked in a *mine*, so I'd say he lived by a pick. What we're saying here
is that he still died by the sword, even though he wasn't attacking with it.
Simply owning a sword shouldn't mean you should die by one. This is a
fundamental change in law enforcement, and I rank it right up there with the
privacy freedoms we've lost at the airport at the sweaty hands and groping
fingers of the TSA.

Johne Cook
| http://raygunrevival.com | http://authorculture.blogspot.com |*
*


On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Paul Christian Glenn
<[email protected]>wrote:

> But you know what? If the rape victim put on revealing clothes and 
> walked through the back alleys of a bad neighborhood at night, she was 
> not acting in her own best interest. In no way does this excuse rape 
> (just as I don't excuse the police in this situation), but it *does* 
> make the rape unsurprising.
>
> I understand that everyone wants to blame someone when this stuff 
> happens, but I want it to be clear that I'm not blaming or excusing 
> anyone. I'm only pointing out that when you live by the sword, you're 
> likely to die by the sword. That's not a judgement, it's just a fact, 
> and one that our culture can't seem to figure out, for whatever reason.
>
>
>
> On May 27, 2011, at 3:32 PM, Mike Findlay <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Wow, that to me, is like blaming the rape victim for her "slutty
attire".
> >
> > Mike F.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Paul Christian Glenn <[email protected]>
> > To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 3:20:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Marine killed in his own home
> >
> > I'm not excusing anyone, least of all the killers. I'm only pointing 
> > out
> a fact,
> > which us that this guy isn't dead because his home was raided. He's 
> > dead
> because
> > *when* his home was raided, he responded by grabbing a shotgun.
> >
> > Whether the raid was justified is irrelevant to the point I'm 
> > making,
> which is
> > that if he'd responded peacefully, he would be able to sue the 
> > police
> himself,
> > instead of his wife doing it in his memory.
> >
> >
> > On May 27, 2011, at 3:13 PM, Johne Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I'd guess because he was a Marine, because there was a history of
> break-ins
> >> in the area, and because he was a homeowner taking responsibility 
> >> for
> his
> >> family. But none of that is really the point. What he does in his 
> >> own
> home
> >> is kind of his business. The SWAT team is responsible not to fire 
> >> unless fired upon. (I've played through a number of close quarters 
> >> combat
> games,
> >> and they practice that very thing over and over, and drill that 
> >> into you that you can't just go firing indiscriminately. The SWAT 
> >> guys fucked up here, not the homeowner, and now he's dead and 
> >> they're excused because
> they
> >> represent the government.)
> >>
> >> Johne Cook
> >> | http://raygunrevival.com | http://authorculture.blogspot.com |*
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Paul Christian Glenn
> > <[email protected]>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Why was he holding a weapon? As you said, details matter.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Mike Findlay 
> >>> <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> So holding a weapon is violence?  I can't tell you the number of 
> >>>> times
> I
> >>> have
> >>>> committed violence.  And I've gotten real nasty and even fired 
> >>>> the
> >>> things.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike F.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Paul Christian Glenn <[email protected]>
> >>>> To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
> >>>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 2:51:55 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Marine killed in his own home
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm adamantly against killing people, period. As I said, this guy
> didn't
> >>> exactly
> >>>> deserve to die, but he chose violence when violence was visited 
> >>>> upon
> him,
> >>> and
> >>>> this is the result. Somebody was in the right, somebody was in 
> >>>> the
> wrong,
> >>>> accusations will fly furiously, lives will be devastated -- and 
> >>>> in the
> >>> end it's
> >>>> one more guy who died with a weapon in his hands. One more tragic
> symptom
> >>> of a
> >>>> society addicted to violence.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On May 27, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Mike Findlay 
> >>>> <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> And a sheep to acquiesce to govt. intrusion, control and 
> >>>>> execution,
> (I
> >>> thought
> >>>>
> >>>>> Paul was adamantly against the death penalty), so blithely.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike F.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>> From: Bruce Geerdes <[email protected]>
> >>>>> To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
> >>>>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 2:41:07 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Marine killed in his own home
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Paul Christian Glenn <
> >>> [email protected]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> If you're calling me a sheep, I'd ask why I'm a sheep for
> subscribing
> >>> to a
> >>>>>> different ideology than yours. You're just following someone 
> >>>>>> else's
> >>> lead,
> >>>> sir.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think Mike was going more for a "sheep to the slaughter" allusion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
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