Re: FWB: Foss with benefits
Charles Cossé <[email protected]> Thu, 5 Feb 2015 01:55:16 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.fsf.education.europe |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CABtoULjBv-URkCiLsn=MdRMqTCL-07QohCQgRNmPNxp6ftaiZw@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============6184642817958767073== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdca0c08409ba050e5376c0 --047d7bdca0c08409ba050e5376c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Cecilie, Thanks for your latest inputs. I'm glad we've ironed-out the semantics and misunderstandings. I will revise my terminology on the homepage to reflect the good advice so-far in this conversation. I am UTC-7 here, i.e. 2am, so please replace "non-commercial" with "GPL-v3 / FOSS" until I have the opportunity tomorrow morning to make those revisions. Thank you, again, for your input. Charles On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 1:39 AM, L.Cecilie Wian <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 9:29 AM, L.Cecilie Wian <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Charles Coss=C3=A9 <[email protected]> wr= ote: >> >>> Thank you Michael :) >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Michael Kesper <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Am 05.02.2015 um 08:12 schrieb L.Cecilie Wian: >>>> >>>>> Now I may sound like I got bitten by Richard, but, you keep saying >>>>> "open source", not "free software". That matters. At least when you >>>>> send out on this list. >>>>> >>>>> I will probably take a look at your project, but it doesn't feel lik= e >>>>> you are listening to marko . And you should. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Please please read your comments again. >>>> I'm very sad to hear such harsh comments when somebody proposes a tool >>>> for propagating knowledge about Free Software. >>>> >>> >> I meant to be strict, not rude. >> And i was annoyed by phrasing, where developers and parents was invited >> to the discussion, not everyone on the list, thus disregarding the input >> you got. Glad that was not your intention. >> >> >> >>>> @Charles: Thanks for the info about your project! >>>> I think it's better to not create false dichotomies in people's mind: >>>> - Free Software (aka open source) is always commercially useable, >>>> that's freedom 0 >>>> - FSFE absolutely encourages building business models on creating, >>>> spreading, studying, using or improving Free Software! >>>> - As there's no free lunch, you've got to have some way to accept mone= y >>>> if you want to build a sustaining infrastructure >>>> >>>> So, I'd cut out the "non-commercial" attribute and would paraphrase it >>>> differently, better explaining what you mean. >>>> >>> >> It looks like i'm missing an email here? >> >> Anyway, i'll go a little back and talk a littlebit about the semantics, >> because when getting into EDU what seems like a detail is huge. >> The non-comercial part is at first glance a good way of ensuring no-one >> takes your good ideas and run of with them, while ensuring the intended >> audience get to use the software. However be aware that a lot of schools >> and educators are actually in private sector and NC in a licence keeps t= hem >> from being allowed to use it, b/c they make money out of education. The >> other way to go about it is the GPL, and since you say you want that i >> think we are getting somewhere intressting. >> >> I'll have a closer look at your project now. >> >> When it comes to the very little amount of edu-software (on the list, bu= t >> also everywhere else), it is so b/c it is a really hard thing to do. Not >> only to make technically a good solution, but one that interact with hum= ans >> with edu in mind. However it is not impossible. >> >> > By the way, i think it is a good idea to take the inputs about the > software perhaps directly or via videoconferance. So we don't fill > everyones inbox with technical details. Or? > > > > -- > Cecilie Wian > > "A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."*- Grace > Hopper / William G.T. Shedd* > > _______________________________________________ > European "Free Software in Education" mailing list > > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-eu > > --047d7bdca0c08409ba050e5376c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><span class=3D"im">Hi Cecilie,<br><br></span></d= iv><span class=3D"im">Thanks for your latest inputs.=C2=A0 I'm glad we&= #39;ve ironed-out the semantics and misunderstandings.=C2=A0 I will revise = my terminology on the homepage to reflect the good advice so-far in this co= nversation.=C2=A0 I am UTC-7 here, i.e. 2am, so please replace "non-co= mmercial"=C2=A0 with "GPL-v3 / FOSS" until I have the opport= unity tomorrow morning to make those revisions.=C2=A0 Thank you, again, for= your input.<br><br></span></div><span class=3D"im">Charles<br></span><div>= <div><span class=3D"im"><br></span><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div clas= s=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 1:39 AM, L.Cecilie Wian <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">l= [email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_= quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,= 204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>= <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 9:= 29 AM, L.Cecilie Wian <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:likevel.katla= @gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:= <br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor= der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>= <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span>On Thu, Feb= 5, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Charles Coss=C3=A9 <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"ma= ilto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wr= ote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">= Thank you Michael :)<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"= gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Michael Kesper <span dir=3D"l= tr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">mkesper@fsfe.= org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar= gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1= ex">Hi all,<br> <br> Am 05.02.2015 um 08:12 schrieb L.Cecilie Wian:<span><span><br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-= left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Now I may sound like I got bitten by Richard, but,=C2=A0 you keep saying<br= > "open source",=C2=A0 not "free software". That matters.= At least when you<br> send out=C2=A0 on this list.<br> <br> I will probably take a look at your project,=C2=A0 but it doesn't feel = like<br> you are listening to marko . And you should.<br> </blockquote> <br></span></span> Please please read your comments again.<br> I'm very sad to hear such harsh comments when somebody proposes a tool = for propagating knowledge about Free Software.<br></blockquote></div></div>= </blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>I meant to be strict, not rude.=C2= =A0</div><div>And i was annoyed by phrasing, where developers and parents w= as invited to the discussion, not everyone on the list, thus disregarding t= he input you got. Glad that was not your intention.=C2=A0</div><span><div><= br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><= div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"g= mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204= ,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br> @Charles: Thanks for the info about your project!<br> I think it's better to not create false dichotomies in people's min= d:<br> - Free Software (aka open source) is always commercially useable, that'= s freedom 0<br> - FSFE absolutely encourages building business models on creating, spreadin= g, studying, using or improving Free Software!<br> - As there's no free lunch, you've got to have some way to accept m= oney if you want to build a sustaining infrastructure<br> <br> So, I'd cut out the "non-commercial" attribute and would para= phrase it differently, better explaining what you mean.<br></blockquote></d= iv></div></blockquote></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>It = looks like i'm missing an email here?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_ex= tra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Anyway, i'll go a little back= and talk a littlebit about the semantics, because when getting into EDU wh= at seems like a detail is huge.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">The n= on-comercial part is at first glance a good way of ensuring no-one takes yo= ur good ideas and run of with them, while ensuring the intended audience ge= t to use the software. However be aware that a lot of schools and educators= are actually in private sector and NC in a licence keeps them from being a= llowed to use it, b/c they make money out of education. The other way to go= about it is the GPL, and since you say you want that i think we are gettin= g somewhere intressting.=C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></di= v><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I'll have a closer look at your project no= w.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr= a">When it comes to the very little amount of edu-software (on the list, bu= t also everywhere else), it is so b/c it is a really hard thing to do. Not = only to make technically a good solution, but one that interact with humans= with edu in mind. However it is not impossible.=C2=A0<span><font color=3D"= #888888"><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div></font></span></div></div></block= quote><div><br></div></div></div><div>By the way, i think it is a good idea= to take the inputs about the software perhaps directly or via videoconfera= nce. So we don't fill everyones inbox with technical details. Or?</div>= </div><span class=3D""><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><di= v dir=3D"ltr"><div>Cecilie Wian<br><br><h1 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 15px;col= or:rgb(24,24,24);font-weight:normal;padding:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:= Georgia,'Times New Roman',serif;line-height:18px">"A ship is s= afe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."</h1><h1 style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 15px;color:rgb(24,24,24);font-weight:normal;padding:0px;= font-size:14px;font-family:Georgia,'Times New Roman',serif;line-hei= ght:18px"><i style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style= =3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:small;line-height:normal">- Grace Hopper /= =C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:small;line-height:no= rmal">William G.T. Shedd</span></i></h1></div></div></div> </span></div></div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> European "Free Software in Education" mailing list<br> <br> <a href=3D"https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-eu" target=3D"_blank"= >https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-eu</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div> --047d7bdca0c08409ba050e5376c0-- --===============6184642817958767073== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ European "Free Software in Education" mailing list https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-eu --===============6184642817958767073==--