Re: FWB: Foss with benefits
"L.Cecilie Wian" <[email protected]> Thu, 5 Feb 2015 13:14:19 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.fsf.education.europe |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAKbfDB_JBQ0WDLfC-QfNjAeTHPqDm=yMzt-1GRS1AXEvUgREQA@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============7502809637128696099== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c00859aa30050e563e53 --e89a8ff1c00859aa30050e563e53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So had a look at it. First of all, when looking at it i will have to look at it in seperate pieces. The r-pi-firewall Autoteach and payment. And the other programs. AT: Simple is better, while wanting the parents (users) to be able steer the payments to whatever program they prefer is a nice idea, i fear the complexity may kill it. So picking up some experience from other applications: Spotify. The base idea is that the artist i play gets the money, in addition they have a really intricate payment structure, that i , as the user, never sees. And i am pretty happy with that. Flatter, a system i love the idea of, became to much work, and i forgot about it. So how about making it an system setting that can be changed? Autodistribute based on usage, and then forced distribution of the user is interested? (what happens if they do not distribute payments?) The programs: I am mostly curious about your Forced reader. It seems like you got a new way of thinking about this. And thats good, this is a difficult problem, since, well, making it easy and automated (so the parents have an easy job) while still ensure the wanted action is taken. The program description, way to long and intricate, i assume it is b/c it is a draft, and that you will sharpen it. Take a look at some other project description pages for things backed. Ops! I see you allready lanched the kickstarting for this. Can you make changes to the project when it is started? On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Charles Coss=C3=A9 <[email protected]> wrote= : > Hi Cecilie, > > Thanks for your latest inputs. I'm glad we've ironed-out the semantics > and misunderstandings. I will revise my terminology on the homepage to > reflect the good advice so-far in this conversation. I am UTC-7 here, i.= e. > 2am, so please replace "non-commercial" with "GPL-v3 / FOSS" until I hav= e > the opportunity tomorrow morning to make those revisions. Thank you, > again, for your input. > > Charles > > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 1:39 AM, L.Cecilie Wian <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 9:29 AM, L.Cecilie Wian <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Charles Coss=C3=A9 <[email protected]> w= rote: >>> >>>> Thank you Michael :) >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Michael Kesper <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Am 05.02.2015 um 08:12 schrieb L.Cecilie Wian: >>>>> >>>>>> Now I may sound like I got bitten by Richard, but, you keep saying >>>>>> "open source", not "free software". That matters. At least when you >>>>>> send out on this list. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will probably take a look at your project, but it doesn't feel li= ke >>>>>> you are listening to marko . And you should. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please please read your comments again. >>>>> I'm very sad to hear such harsh comments when somebody proposes a too= l >>>>> for propagating knowledge about Free Software. >>>>> >>>> >>> I meant to be strict, not rude. >>> And i was annoyed by phrasing, where developers and parents was invited >>> to the discussion, not everyone on the list, thus disregarding the inpu= t >>> you got. Glad that was not your intention. >>> >>> >>> >>>>> @Charles: Thanks for the info about your project! >>>>> I think it's better to not create false dichotomies in people's mind: >>>>> - Free Software (aka open source) is always commercially useable, >>>>> that's freedom 0 >>>>> - FSFE absolutely encourages building business models on creating, >>>>> spreading, studying, using or improving Free Software! >>>>> - As there's no free lunch, you've got to have some way to accept >>>>> money if you want to build a sustaining infrastructure >>>>> >>>>> So, I'd cut out the "non-commercial" attribute and would paraphrase i= t >>>>> differently, better explaining what you mean. >>>>> >>>> >>> It looks like i'm missing an email here? >>> >>> Anyway, i'll go a little back and talk a littlebit about the semantics, >>> because when getting into EDU what seems like a detail is huge. >>> The non-comercial part is at first glance a good way of ensuring no-one >>> takes your good ideas and run of with them, while ensuring the intended >>> audience get to use the software. However be aware that a lot of school= s >>> and educators are actually in private sector and NC in a licence keeps = them >>> from being allowed to use it, b/c they make money out of education. The >>> other way to go about it is the GPL, and since you say you want that i >>> think we are getting somewhere intressting. >>> >>> I'll have a closer look at your project now. >>> >>> When it comes to the very little amount of edu-software (on the list, >>> but also everywhere else), it is so b/c it is a really hard thing to do= . >>> Not only to make technically a good solution, but one that interact wit= h >>> humans with edu in mind. However it is not impossible. >>> >>> >> By the way, i think it is a good idea to take the inputs about the >> software perhaps directly or via videoconferance. So we don't fill >> everyones inbox with technical details. Or? >> >> >> >> -- >> Cecilie Wian >> >> "A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."*- Grace >> Hopper / William G.T. Shedd* >> >> _______________________________________________ >> European "Free Software in Education" mailing list >> >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-eu >> >> > --=20 Cecilie Wian "A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."*- Grace Hopper / William G.T. Shedd* --e89a8ff1c00859aa30050e563e53 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">So had a look at it. First of all, when looking at it i wi= ll have to look at it in seperate pieces.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>The r-pi= -firewall Autoteach and payment.=C2=A0</div><div>And the other programs.=C2= =A0</div><div><br></div><div>AT: Simple is better, while wanting the parent= s (users) to be able steer the payments to whatever program they prefer is = a nice idea, i fear the complexity may kill it. So picking up some experien= ce from other applications: Spotify. The base idea is that the artist i pla= y gets the money, in addition they have a really intricate payment structur= e, that i , as the user, never sees. And i am pretty happy with that. Flatt= er, a system i love the idea of, became to much work, and i forgot about it= . So how about making it an system setting that can be changed? Autodistrib= ute based on usage, and then forced distribution of the user is interested?= (what happens if they do not distribute payments?)</div><div><br></div><di= v>The programs:</div><div>I am mostly curious about your Forced reader. It = seems like you got a new way of thinking about this. And thats good, this i= s a difficult problem, since, well, making it easy and automated (so the pa= rents have an easy job) while still ensure the wanted action is taken.=C2= =A0</div><div><br></div><div>The program description, way to long and intri= cate, i assume it is b/c it is a draft, and that you will sharpen it. Take = a look at some other project description pages for things backed. Ops! I se= e you allready lanched the kickstarting for this. Can you make changes to t= he project when it is started?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div></div><div class= =3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 9:55= AM, Charles Coss=C3=A9 <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:ccosse@gmai= l.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockqu= ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s= olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><span>Hi Cecilie,<br><br>= </span></div><span>Thanks for your latest inputs.=C2=A0 I'm glad we'= ;ve ironed-out the semantics and misunderstandings.=C2=A0 I will revise my = terminology on the homepage to reflect the good advice so-far in this conve= rsation.=C2=A0 I am UTC-7 here, i.e. 2am, so please replace "non-comme= rcial"=C2=A0 with "GPL-v3 / FOSS" until I have the opportuni= ty tomorrow morning to make those revisions.=C2=A0 Thank you, again, for yo= ur input.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br><br></font></sp= an></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><span>Charle= s<br></span></font></span><div><div><span><br></span><div class=3D"gmail_ex= tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Thu, Feb 5, 2= 015 at 1:39 AM, L.Cecilie Wian <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:like= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></spa= n> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:= 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">= <div><div class=3D"h5"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>= <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div>On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 9:29 AM, L.Ceci= lie Wian <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" t= arget=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquo= te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px = solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D= "gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span>On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8= :45 AM, Charles Coss=C3=A9 <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:ccosse@g= mail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><bloc= kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:= 1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you Mic= hael :)<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Michael Kesper <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></= span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0= px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi all,<b= r> <br> Am 05.02.2015 um 08:12 schrieb L.Cecilie Wian:<span><span><br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-= left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Now I may sound like I got bitten by Richard, but,=C2=A0 you keep saying<br= > "open source",=C2=A0 not "free software". That matters.= At least when you<br> send out=C2=A0 on this list.<br> <br> I will probably take a look at your project,=C2=A0 but it doesn't feel = like<br> you are listening to marko . And you should.<br> </blockquote> <br></span></span> Please please read your comments again.<br> I'm very sad to hear such harsh comments when somebody proposes a tool = for propagating knowledge about Free Software.<br></blockquote></div></div>= </blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>I meant to be strict, not rude.=C2= =A0</div><div>And i was annoyed by phrasing, where developers and parents w= as invited to the discussion, not everyone on the list, thus disregarding t= he input you got. Glad that was not your intention.=C2=A0</div><span><div><= br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><= div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"g= mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204= ,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br> @Charles: Thanks for the info about your project!<br> I think it's better to not create false dichotomies in people's min= d:<br> - Free Software (aka open source) is always commercially useable, that'= s freedom 0<br> - FSFE absolutely encourages building business models on creating, spreadin= g, studying, using or improving Free Software!<br> - As there's no free lunch, you've got to have some way to accept m= oney if you want to build a sustaining infrastructure<br> <br> So, I'd cut out the "non-commercial" attribute and would para= phrase it differently, better explaining what you mean.<br></blockquote></d= iv></div></blockquote></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>It = looks like i'm missing an email here?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_ex= tra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Anyway, i'll go a little back= and talk a littlebit about the semantics, because when getting into EDU wh= at seems like a detail is huge.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">The n= on-comercial part is at first glance a good way of ensuring no-one takes yo= ur good ideas and run of with them, while ensuring the intended audience ge= t to use the software. However be aware that a lot of schools and educators= are actually in private sector and NC in a licence keeps them from being a= llowed to use it, b/c they make money out of education. The other way to go= about it is the GPL, and since you say you want that i think we are gettin= g somewhere intressting.=C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></di= v><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I'll have a closer look at your project no= w.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr= a">When it comes to the very little amount of edu-software (on the list, bu= t also everywhere else), it is so b/c it is a really hard thing to do. Not = only to make technically a good solution, but one that interact with humans= with edu in mind. However it is not impossible.=C2=A0<span><font color=3D"= #888888"><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div></font></span></div></div></block= quote><div><br></div></div></div><div>By the way, i think it is a good idea= to take the inputs about the software perhaps directly or via videoconfera= nce. So we don't fill everyones inbox with technical details. Or?</div>= </div><span><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><div dir=3D"lt= r"><div>Cecilie Wian<br><br><h1 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 15px;color:rgb(24,2= 4,24);font-weight:normal;padding:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Georgia,= 9;Times New Roman',serif;line-height:18px">"A ship is safe in harb= or, but that's not what ships are for."</h1><h1 style=3D"margin:0p= x 0px 15px;color:rgb(24,24,24);font-weight:normal;padding:0px;font-size:14p= x;font-family:Georgia,'Times New Roman',serif;line-height:18px"><i = style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0= ,0,0);font-size:small;line-height:normal">- Grace Hopper /=C2=A0</span><spa= n style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:small;line-height:normal">William G.T= . Shedd</span></i></h1></div></div></div> </span></div></div> <br></div></div><span class=3D"">__________________________________________= _____<br> European "Free Software in Education" mailing list<br> <br> <a href=3D"https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-eu" target=3D"_blank"= >https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-eu</a><br> <br></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class= =3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_signature">Cecili= e Wian<br><br><h1 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 15px;color:rgb(24,24,24);font-wei= ght:normal;padding:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Georgia,'Times New Ro= man',serif;line-height:18px">"A ship is safe in harbor, but that&#= 39;s not what ships are for."</h1><h1 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 15px;col= or:rgb(24,24,24);font-weight:normal;padding:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:= Georgia,'Times New Roman',serif;line-height:18px"><i style=3D"font-= family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-siz= e:small;line-height:normal">- Grace Hopper /=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"col= or:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:small;line-height:normal">William G.T. Shedd</span>= </i></h1></div></div></div> </div> --e89a8ff1c00859aa30050e563e53-- --===============7502809637128696099== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ European "Free Software in Education" mailing list https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-eu --===============7502809637128696099==--