Re: [needs proofread & IT translation] Refund4Freedom news item

Hi Richard,

webpreview is giving us some headaches these last days.

I added the new suggestions (and the alt text one that I forgot) and all 
is ready in the same link: https://webpreview.fsfe.org/cgi/fsfe.pl?pad=1467

I think I went through all except number 6

6.  "This offers an alternative to buying a new device when support
for Windows 10 ends on 14 October 2025."  I suggest replacing "when"
with "before."  Buying the new device on the deadline date will be too
late as a practical matter.

I didn´t replace when for before as the idea is that from 14 October 
computer users will have to acquire a new laptop if they were using 
windows 10 (or I guess Windows 11 license if their laptop is powerful 
enough for it).

Thanks a lot!
Ana

On 5/27/25 16:06, Richard L. Schmeidler wrote:
> Having sent you extensive suggestions after 4 AM, I am now back at
> work two hours later to make further suggestions in response to the
> new webpreview (in English, this time) that you sent so quickly.
>
> I have been proofreading the webpreview you sent.  I have not been
> checking to see whether you adopted my suggestions.  However, several
> times I have stumbled upon places in the webpreview where I would want
> to make a suggestion now and I have realized that I already made such
> a suggestion.
>
> There is an oddity of naming.  The webpreview you now sent is
> https://webpreview.fsfe.org/cgi/fsfe.pl?pad=1467 .  However, this
> generates an xhtml file with the number 1461.  For clarity, I am
> designating the xhtml file and the .odt file I am attaching with the
> number 1467, not 1461 (which was the number associated with the
> previous version of this news item).
>
> 1.  I see that you did not adopt my suggestions (in my previous #2)
> for changes to the alt text for the first figure.  I still do not know
> what a "subtration" is, but this is your news item and your figure,
> not mine.
>
> 2.  "it becomes problematic as the cost of the Microsoft Windows
> license is bundled in without an effective and easy way for the
> consumers to opt out."  I suggest removing the second occurrence of
> "the" (before "consumers").  There is no prior reference to consumers,
> so it is inappropriate to refer to "the consumers."  The reader should
> have been told which consumers are involved before the definite
> article "the" is used.  [When I was proofreading an earlier version of
> this news item last night, I considered making this suggestion, but
> that version had a reference to consumers that was present in the last
> sentence of the previous paragraph (and has been replaced by a
> reference to "users" in the present version).  So I accepted the
> presence of "the" in that earlier version, where I think that "the"
> should be removed from the present version.]
>
> 3.  I see that the new version retains the two sentences run together
> (without a space between them) that I pointed out in my previous #6:
> "This standardized practice not only adds extra costs for the
> consumers, if they do not want that pre-installed software, but also
> comes with another issue: the hardship of saying no to it and getting
> a refund.Forcing consumers to buy software every time they acquire a
> new device without the possibility to reject the software bundling is
> against Device Neutrality."  I assume that this was an oversight; I
> cannot imagine a reason for choosing to do this.
>
> 4.  "Help consumers to get a refund of the Windows License when buying
> a new device."  I suggest inserting "cost of the" before "Windows."
> [I missed this last night.  Sorry.]
>
> 5.  "Refund4Freedom is inserted in a broader set of activities aiming
> at end-users rights."
>
> (a)  I suggest replacing "inserted in" with "one of."  English usage.
>
> (b)  I suggest replacing "aiming at" with something like "promoting."
> Other phrasing is possible.  My reasoning is that in English, "aiming
> at" can have both positive and negative connotations.  As a notable
> example, one aims a gun at something to destroy it.
>
> (c)  Replace "end-users" with "end-users'."  The possessive form of the plural.
>
> 6.  "This offers an alternative to buying a new device when support
> for Windows 10 ends on 14 October 2025."  I suggest replacing "when"
> with "before."  Buying the new device on the deadline date will be too
> late as a practical matter.
>
> 7.  "Refund4Freedom supports this transition and helps users avoid
> unnecessary costs while promoting device neutrality and
> user-controlled choices."  I suggest replacing "promoting" with
> "encouraging."  There is nothing wrong with this sentence!  I make
> this suggestion only because I suggested using the word "promoting"
> earlier in this paragraph.
>
> 8.  "An inspiring example is the successful story."  I suggest
> rewriting as "A dramatic example is the successful battle."  There is
> nothing wrong with this, but I think it can be improved (and any
> number of other rewritings are possible).
>
> (a)  One problem is that the word "inspired" appears so often.  It is
> the second word of the heading.  "Inspired" appears again in the first
> sentence [with a slightly different meaning, the impetus of the
> initiative, not that the reader will be inspired].  And now "inspired"
> occurs again.  Three times in such quick succession seems excessive.
>
> (b)  A second issue is that "successful story" seems weak.  Yes, a
> story about a success is a successful story, but the meaning of
> "successful story" that I would prefer is a story that accomplishes
> the story-teller's purpose.  And a battle of Luca against Lenovo is
> better than a story of Luca against Lenovo.
>
> 9.  "The practice of increasing the price of the hardware by including
> a bundling Windows license is not new, and depending on the
> manufacturer dealing with it can be a long and quite frustrating
> process."  This is a replacement for a sentence in the previous
> version for which I made four suggestions.  I have decided that what I
> suggested earlier is imperfect, so I am making a new set of
> suggestions.
>
> (a)  I repeat my previous suggestion, #12(a), of replacing "bundling"
> with "bundled."  This is a matter of English grammar.  The license
> does not engage in the bundling.  Bundling is what is done to the
> license when it is included in the sale of the computer.
>
> (b)  I now suggest replacing the comma after "new" [which was my
> previous suggestion #12(b) with a semicolon and removing the next
> word, "and."  A semicolon is another way of joining two independent
> sentences.
>
> (c)  I now suggest inserting a comma after "manufacturer."  This is
> necessary to make clear what the nature of the dependency is:  the
> degree of frustration depends on who the manufacturer is.  [My
> suggestion (b), above, avoids having this comma be close to the comma
> that I previously suggested for separating  the two halves of this
> sentence.]
>
> 10.  "In 2018, Luca filed a request to Lenovo for the refund of the
> cost of the pre-installed Windows in his new Lenovo Ideapad
> convertible laptop."  I still think (my previous #13(a)) that the
> request was for the cost of the Windows license, not the cost of the
> software as such.
>
> 11.  I see that you did not adopt my suggestions (in my previous #14)
> for changes to the alt text for the second figure.
>
> 12.  I see that you did not adopt my grammatical suggestion (in my
> previous #15(a)) for removal of the comma in the phrase "an easy,
> consumer rights request."  The technical terminology is that a comma
> is used if the adjectives are '"coordinate adjectives," adjectives
> that directly and equally modify the following noun.  Adjectives are
> considered coordinate if the meaning would be the same if their order
> were reversed or if "and" were placed between them.  You wouldn't say
> "a consumer rights, easy request" or "an easy and consumer rights
> request."
>
> 13.  In my previous suggestion #18(b), I suggested replacing
> "manufactures" with "manufacturers."  The two words are different.  A
> manufacturer makes something.  The less common "manufacture" (when
> used as a noun) can either mean the process of making something or
> what is made.
> (You inserted a comma after "guidance" that I did not suggest in my
> previous suggestion #18(a) and would not have suggested, but the
> sentence reads equally well either way.)
>
> I think that this will reach you in good time, before evening in Berlin.
>
> On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 4:50 AM Ana Galan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Thanks a lot Richard!
>>
>> I applied your suggestions. In the meanwhile we added a new paragraph as
>> the FSFE is now supporting the End of 10 campaign and we change a subtitle.
>>
>> https://webpreview.fsfe.org/cgi/fsfe.pl?pad=1467
>>
>> To make it easier the paragraph is the following:
>>
>> /"Refund4Freedom is inserted in a broader set of activities aiming at
>> end-users rights. For instance, the End of 10 campaign
>> <https://endof10.org/> encourages users to keep using their current
>> hardware by switching to Free Software operating systems. This offers an
>> alternative to buying a new device when support for Windows 10 ends on
>> 14 October 2025. By demanding refunds for unwanted pre-installed
>> software, Refund4Freedom supports this transition and helps users avoid
>> unnecessary costs while promoting device neutrality and user-controlled
>> choices."/
>>
>> and the subtitle was "Enforcing Software Freedom in Court" and now is
>> "/Get inspired! A tenacious example of license refund in Italy/"
>>
>> Sorry for the inconvenience.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Ana
>>
>> On 5/27/25 10:14, Richard L. Schmeidler wrote:
>>> This is the latest message I have received from you.  Over fourteen
>>> hours later, I did not receive any other message, specifically not the
>>> xhtml update.
>>>
>>> Since you want this "done by next Tuesday evening," after a busy
>>> weekend away from home I started to proofread it tonight to have it in
>>> your hands by Tuesday morning Berlin time.
>>>
>>> I wanted to proofread the current webpreview, and attach a version of my own.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the webpreview cited in your message that arrived this
>>> morning, https://webpreview.fsfe.org/cgi/fsfe.pl?pad=1465 , is not in
>>> English.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the webpreview cited in your message that arrived on
>>> May 23, https://webpreview.fsfe.org/cgi/fsfe.pl?pad=1463 , is not in
>>> English.
>>>
>>> Fortunately, the xhtml file attached to the message that arrived on
>>> May 23 was in English.  I am therefore proofreading that version of
>>> the text. The .xhtml file I am attaching is based on that file, not
>>> something newer.  I am also attaching a .odt version so as to give
>>> both me and you the benefit of the LibreOffice "Track Changes"
>>> feature.
>>>
>>> =====
>>>
>>> Gabriele Ponzo made what seem to me to be a number of excellent
>>> suggestions for improvements to the English text of the postcard.  Are
>>> there any suggestions from the Italian version of the news item that
>>> should be incorporated into the English text?
>>>
>>> =====
>>>
>>> 1.   Title:  "No more imposed licensing - Get back the costs of your
>>> Windows License!"  Replace "costs" with "cost."  There is really only
>>> one cost of one person's license, the expense of paying for the
>>> license.  In the xhtml file, this appears twice.  (If you want to
>>> express this using "your" as a plural pronoun, it would be equally
>>> good to say "Get back the costs of your Windows Licenses!")
>>>
>>> 2.  Alt text for first figure.  "Illustration of a subtration that is
>>> showing a laptop with what looks similar to the windows logo on the
>>> screen. Then we have the the minus sign and what looks like the
>>> Windows logo. After it the equal sign and the same laptop that now is
>>> showing a heart on the screen. All is white with a blue background"
>>> (These suggestions do not show up on my .odt version.)
>>>
>>> (a)  I do not know what is intended by "subtration."  An internet
>>> search seems to bring up that this is an incorrect spelling of
>>> "subtraction," but that is surely not intended here.  I suggest
>>> clarification, but in my version I am simply removing "of a
>>> subtration"
>>>
>>> (b)  Replace "the the" with "the."
>>>
>>> (c)  Capitalize "windows" to conform to usage later in the sentence.
>>>
>>> 3.  "As an user, you have most likely encountered the issue"  Replace
>>> "an" with "a."  The rule in English for choosing between "an" and "a"
>>> is to look at  the pronunciation of the word that follows.  At least
>>> in the US English I speak, but I think also elsewhere, "user" is
>>> pronounced "YOO-z'r" with a strong initial Y sound and a very
>>> indistinct vowel in the second syllable.
>>>
>>> 4.  "without an effective and easy way for the consumers to opt-out."
>>> Replace "opt-out" with "opt out."  Although "opt-out" is clear, the
>>> form without the hyphen is customary.
>>>
>>> 5.  "This standardized practice not only adds extra costs for the
>>> consumers pockets, if they do not want that pre-installed software,
>>> but also comes with another issue: the hardship of saying no to it and
>>> getting a refund."
>>>
>>> (a)  Replace "consumers" with "consumers' ".  The possessive form of the plural.
>>>
>>> (b)  I suggest removing the first comma (after "pockets").  This comma
>>> is grammatically correct, but it is in the first half of a relatively
>>> complex sentence.  The second half (starting with "but") is itself
>>> divided in half by the colon.  I think that removing the comma makes
>>> the first half clearer, since now there is no internal punctuation in
>>> the first half to be confused with the comma separating the two
>>> halves.
>>>
>>> 6.  'refund.Forcing"  Insert a space between the two sentences.
>>>
>>> 7.  "Forcing consumers, to buy a software every time you acquire a new device"
>>>
>>> (a)  Remove the comma after "consumers."  English grammar.
>>>
>>> (b)  Remove the first occurrence of "a" (before "software").  English
>>> grammar.  In English, "software" is a mass (or uncountable) noun.
>>> Just as one cannot buy seven softwares, one cannot buy "a software."
>>>
>>> (c)  Replace "you" with "they."  Yes, the readers are consumers, but
>>> this statement applies to all consumers, not just the readers.
>>>
>>> 8.   "Besides, it is illegal when manufacturers do not allow consumers
>>> to reimburse the licensing costs of not used software."
>>>
>>> (a)   Replace "reimburse" with "recover."  The two words differ in
>>> meaning.  The manufacturer or retailer must pay money to the consumer;
>>>    that is a reimbursement.  The consumer does not do the reimbursing;
>>> the consumer recovers the unnecessary expense.
>>>
>>> (b)  Replace "not used" with "unused."  English usage.
>>>
>>> 8.  "The Refund4Freedomaims to"
>>>
>>> (a)  I suggest removing the first word, "The."  English usage.  It
>>> would also be possible to insert "initiative" after "Refund4Freedom,"
>>> but since Refund4Freedom has been identified as an initiative in both
>>> of the earlier sentences in this paragraph, I think that saying this a
>>> third time would be excessive.
>>>
>>> (b)  Insert a space between "Refund4Freedom" and "aims."
>>>
>>> 9.  "Help consumers to get a refund of the Windows License when buying
>>> a new device"   To conform to the other items, add a period (full
>>> stop) at the end of this item.
>>>
>>> 10.  "Protect the right to use only the software of their choice."
>>> Replace "their" with "one's."  English grammar.  For several reasons,
>>> the antecedent of "their" is manufacturers, not consumers.  What is
>>> intended is consumers have the choice, although I must admit that
>>> Microsoft would like to see to it that everyone uses software of
>>> Microsoft's choice.  8-)
>>>
>>> 11.  "An inspiring example is the successful story from Luca Bonnissi"
>>>    I suggest replacing "from" with "of."  English usage.  (If Luca's
>>> story were presented as a write-up that he had prepared, this would be
>>> a story from him.)
>>>
>>> 12.  "The practice of increasing the price of the hardware by
>>> including a bundling Windows license is not new and depending the
>>> manufacturer can be a long and quite frustrating process."
>>>
>>> (a)  Replace "bundling" with "bundled."  The license does not engage
>>> in the bundling.
>>>
>>> (b)  Insert a comma after "new."  English grammar.  When what would be
>>> two complete sentences are joined with "and," the comma is necessary.
>>>
>>> (c)  Insert "on" after "depending."  English usage.
>>>
>>> (d)  I suggest inserting something like "dealing with it" before
>>> "can."  Quite contrary to what is stated here, there is nothing long
>>> or frustrating for the vendor in the practice of increasing the price
>>> by including the license.
>>>
>>> 13. "In 2018, Luca filed a request to Lenovo for the refund and return
>>> of the pre-installed Windows in his new Lenovo Ideapad convertible
>>> table."
>>>
>>> (a)  Replace "and return of the pre-installed Windows" with "of the
>>> cost of the pre-installed Windows license"  This corrects a
>>> misstatement of fact.  See
>>> https://bonissi.it/bonissi_lenovo/01-chat_con_ServizioClienti_Lenovo.pdf
>>>
>>> (b)  Replace "table" with "laptop" or "laptop/tablet."  In English, a
>>> table is an entirely different object from a tablet.
>>>
>>> 14.  Alt text:  "Illustration of a hand removing what looks like a
>>> Windows logo sticker with the word Freedom."  Replace "with" with
>>> "partially covering."  The word "Freedom" is not on the sticker, and I
>>> think that it is useful to indicate that the word would be clearly
>>> readable even before the sticker is removed.  Other phrasings would be
>>> possible.   (This suggestion does not show up on my .odt version.)
>>>
>>> 15.  "What started as an easy, consumer rights request ended up in a
>>> truly legal and bureaucratic quest which consumed years, several court
>>> proceedings, and much resilience and determination from Luca."
>>>
>>> (a)  Remove the comma after "easy."  English grammar.
>>>
>>> (b)  I suggest removing "truly."  English usage.  There is nothing
>>> specifically relating to truthfulness in the description of the
>>> process.  Why would anyone doubt that the quest was both legal and
>>> bureaucratic?
>>>
>>> (c)  I suggest replacing "legal and bureaucratic" with "bureaucratic
>>> and legal."  According to
>>> https://fsfe.org/news/2021/news-20210302-01.en.html , the bureaucratic
>>> efforts preceded the legal ones.
>>>
>>> 16.  "At the end, the court confirmed the right to reimbursement of
>>> the pre-installed software and the sentence pointed out that the
>>> manufacturer itself had expressly assumed this obligation in the
>>> Windows licence."
>>>
>>> (a)  I suggest replacing "At" with "In."  English usage.
>>>
>>> (b)  Replace "of" with "for."  English usage.
>>>
>>> (c)  Replace "sentence" with "decision."  English legal terminology.
>>>
>>> (d)  Replace "licence" with "license."  See the FSFE style guide, now
>>> available at https://wiki.fsfe.org/TechDocs/Mainpage/Translations/Styleguide
>>> .  It has, as the second of its English Rules, a specific reference to
>>> the spelling of this word.  Since this is a license of a very
>>> international company, the US spelling should be used.
>>>
>>> 17.  These companies often use their position of power to discourage
>>> individuals, who do not have time and resources to be involved in
>>> drawn-out litigation just for a Windows license refund.  Remove the
>>> comma after "individuals."  English grammar.
>>>
>>> 18.  "empowering them with knowledge, guidance, and to reclaim that
>>> manufactures should not impose specific operating systems on them."
>>>
>>> (a)  I suggest rewriting to replace the first comma and "guidance, and
>>> to reclaim" with just the words "and guidance."  "Reclaim" should be
>>> replaced; it is not the right word here, but I am not at all sure what
>>> should replace it.  To say "reclaim" would mean to give consumers back
>>> something that they used to have and to which they are now entitled.
>>> The second of these applies, but not the first.  Since Refund4Freedom
>>> will provide information and inspiration, but will not provide
>>> effective tools that are easy to use, my suggestion does not go so far
>>> as to say that the initiative will reclaim freedom from this
>>> imposition.
>>>
>>> (b)  Replace "manufactures" with "manufacturers."
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 26, 2025 at 6:14 AM Ana Galan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> due to some issues with the webpreview, the English version is now here:
>>>> https://webpreview.fsfe.org/cgi/fsfe.pl?pad=1465
>>>>
>>>> We will need to add an extra paragraph so I will send you another mail
>>>> later today with the xhtml update. That pad will also be updated later
>>>> with the new paragraph
>>>>
>>>> (I just wanted to make sure you are not currently looking for it and you
>>>> cannot find it)
>>>>
>>>> The IT translation is also ready for proofread:
>>>> https://webpreview.fsfe.org/cgi/fsfe.pl?pad=1464
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Ana
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/23/25 09:46, Ana Galan wrote:
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> next week  (Thursday) we have the kick-off event of the initiative
>>>>> Refund4Freedom and therefore, we wrote a news item about it.  I am
>>>>> kindly asking for your help with English proofread and, as it is an IT
>>>>> initiative, an IT translation.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be great to have it done by next Tuesday evening.
>>>>>
>>>>> As usual, you can find the xhtml file attached and the English version
>>>>> in the webpreview: https://webpreview.fsfe.org/cgi/fsfe.pl?pad=1463
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot and have a great weekend,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ana
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All
>>>> participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other:
>>>> https://fsfe.org/about/codeofconduct
>>>
>> --
>> Ana Galan - Senior Project Manager Communications
>> Free Software Foundation Europe
>> Schönhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin, Germany | t:+49 157 92 34 72 12
>> Registered at Amtsgericht Hamburg, VR 17030  |(fsfe.org/support)
>>
>
-- 
Ana Galan - Senior Project Manager Communications
Free Software Foundation Europe
Schönhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin, Germany | t:+49 157 92 34 72 12
Registered at Amtsgericht Hamburg, VR 17030  |(fsfe.org/support)

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