Re: Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablets
Kathinka <[email protected]> Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:15:13 +1300
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.user-groups.linux.dunedin.general |
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| Message-ID | <CAMWvXDYmBUy80jAtCV1iOMTz6mzo7wekWhm7qx4+tehV-6ictQ@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============2992575415832125126== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140f582e17980052f799699 --001a1140f582e17980052f799699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh Tomas! "Coming from abroad, I find New Zealand politeness sometimes paralysing a healthy argument. In my opinion people here could learn a bit more of the raw honesty, for example from Germans." Oh yes! I don't know many Germans, and not well enough to comment. But I do know Dutch people and find them fabulously easy to get along with - such straightforward people, no culture of being socially rewarded for taking offence I suppose, so no need to be quiveringly tentative and wrap every remark in cotton wool. Kathinka. On 2 April 2016 at 17:49, Tomas Sobek <[email protected]> wrote: > I tend to passively watch what is discussed on DunLUG. I found this > discussion thread between Kathinka and Reece very informative. On one han= d > I am curious how it works out with Ubuntu tablets and I am even consideri= ng > ordering one. I can also relate to Kathinka's sentiments about user > interface evolution as I generally prefer old and tried. The comments abo= ut > blind and handicapped people however were the most eye opening to me, as = I > never contemplated them before. This could turn into a useful feedback to > all user interface designers indeed - do they want to exclude or include > such users? By discussing it we can make it an informed choice. > > I would like to offer my observation about the use of language. Coming > from abroad, I find New Zealand politeness sometimes paralysing a healthy > argument. In my opinion people here could learn a bit more of the raw > honesty, for example from Germans. Ability to deal with a disagreement > without taking it personally or as an offence, is a part of emotional > maturity. Sugar coating every word makes a communication unnecessarily > complicated. Though I understand that direct communication requires mutua= l > trust. > Tomas > > ---------- P=C5=AFvodn=C3=AD zpr=C3=A1va ---------- > Od: Chris Burgess <[email protected]> > Komu: Kathinka <[email protected]> > Datum: 2. 4. 2016 16:35:34 > P=C5=99edm=C4=9Bt: Re: [dunlug] Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu t= ablets > > I joined this list because I've enjoyed using Linux for many years, and I > believe in the community & ideals of free software. > > Being hostile about the choices of others, including their decisions to > contribute to projects we aren't part of, or to use software we don't use= , > is unlikely to contribute to helping others discover free software. Shall > we choose to not make that a part of DunLUG culture? > > One of the great things about free software is that if you don't like it, > the cost of not using or contributing is also free. There's no need to be > rude about, or swear at, projects that you don't favour or entire groups = of > people (flesh or straw). > > On 2 April 2016 at 09:46, Kathinka <[email protected]> wrote= : > > By golly Reece, it's a much wider issue than mere preference! Thank you > for pointing that out > > Where there has been a choice of how to display I have always chosen text= , > or icon + text. > > It was IMO a mistake to go one size fits all. Sure enough a phone can't > be made for touch-typing, and one wouldn't want to carry a mouse around t= o > use with the smart phone. Not however a good reason for downgrading > tablets and PCs to match. Having one multipurpose "button" (e.g. touchpa= d) > looks clean, streamlined therefore efficient. But to me it's like having > only one sharp knife in a kitchen, the right size for some tasks, awkward > and inefficient for others. > > Kathinka. > > On 2 April 2016 at 09:26, Reece Arnott <[email protected]> wrote: > > Short answer: yes. > Slightly longer answer: (my impression is) Canonical started moving in > this direction as they saw touch interfaces were going to be a thing but > they still wanted to users to have a similar experience even if they didn= 't > have a touch device. These tablets (and to a more limited extent the > smart-phone I linked to) are really the first test of whether this sort o= f > approach will actually work out. > > Similar sorts of experiments happened as the mouse became popular to > transition from pure keyboard driven interfaces. > > What I think is really going to be interesting though is how the > minorities are accounted for, eg. I have a friend who had his fingers > burnt/melted in a fire and doesn't have a single whole one left. How is > that going to be accommodated? Not to mention the obvious problem how the > blind are to use such an interface. > > On 01/04/16 17:03, Kathinka wrote: > > Is that Ubuntu the new (well, not really new now but I've avoided it) GUI > all pictures and scratch'n'sniff? > I'm very non-visual and find icons a pita, have to mentally translate > them into words every time, much prefer menus etc in words so as to save > time for getting on with whatever I want to use the tool for. Tough shit > if this upsets designer types who want to impose their post-verbal > art-ahead-of-communication passion on us without providing an easy switch > on/off to accommodate language people as well as pix-ies. > > On 30 March 2016 at 18:56, Reece Arnott <[email protected]> wrote: > > Pre-notice notice: I just realised an hour ago that all the DunLUG > messages for at least the last month have ended up in Gmail's spam filter= . > If you get this then you won't be affected but feel free to pass the > message on. > > Two 10.1 inch tablets that come with the mobile version of Ubuntu are > available for pre-order. > https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/ > See http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features for some details. > > There is also a 5 inch smartphone at the same store that has a > significantly higher resolution camera for 200 euros: > <https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/> > https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/ > > All say they come with Ubuntu 15.04. > > > -- > "Believing men would act in their own interest was not cynicism, it turne= d out, but sheerest optimism; in reality men do not meet so high a standard= ." > -- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (Chapter 84)http://hpmor.c= om/ > > Reece Arnott > Dunedin > New Zealand > > > _______________________________________________ > DunLUG mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug > DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > DunLUG mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug > DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/ > > > _______________________________________________ > DunLUG mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug > DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/ > > > _______________________________________________ > DunLUG mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug > DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/ > --001a1140f582e17980052f799699 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,= serif">Oh Tomas! =C2=A0"Coming from abroad, I find New Zealand politen= ess sometimes paralysing a healthy argument. In my opinion people here coul= d learn a bit more of the raw honesty, for example from Germans." =C2= =A0Oh yes!</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,s= erif">I don't know many Germans, and not well enough to comment.=C2=A0 = But I do know Dutch people and find them fabulously easy to get along with = - such straightforward people, no culture of being socially rewarded for ta= king offence I suppose, so no need to be quiveringly tentative and wrap eve= ry remark in cotton wool.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"= font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"= font-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl= e=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">= <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 April 2016 at 17:49, Tomas Sobek <span = dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">san= [email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><di= v>I tend to passively watch what is discussed on DunLUG. I found this discu= ssion thread between Kathinka and Reece very informative. On one hand I am = curious how it works out with Ubuntu tablets and I am even considering orde= ring one. I can also relate to Kathinka's sentiments about user interfa= ce evolution as I generally prefer old and tried. The comments about blind = and handicapped people however were the most eye opening to me, as I never = contemplated them before. This could turn into a useful feedback to all use= r interface designers indeed - do they want to exclude or include such user= s? By discussing it we can make it an informed choice.<br><br>I would like = to offer my observation about the use of language. Coming from abroad, I fi= nd New Zealand politeness sometimes paralysing a healthy argument. In my op= inion people here could learn a bit more of the raw honesty, for example fr= om Germans. Ability to deal with a disagreement without taking it personall= y or as an offence, is a part of emotional maturity. Sugar coating every wo= rd makes a communication unnecessarily complicated. Though I understand tha= t direct communication requires mutual trust.<br>Tomas<br><br><p>----------= P=C5=AFvodn=C3=AD zpr=C3=A1va ----------<br>Od: Chris Burgess <<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]= </a>><br>Komu: Kathinka <<a href=3D"mailto:kathinka.dunediensis@gmail= .com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>><br>Datum: 2.= 4. 2016 16:35:34<br>P=C5=99edm=C4=9Bt: Re: [dunlug] Reasonable deal for pr= e-ordering Ubuntu tablets</p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br><blockquote><div><d= iv><div>I joined this list because I've enjoyed using Linux for many ye= ars, and I believe in the community & ideals of free software.</div><di= v><br></div><div>Being hostile about the choices of others, including their= decisions to contribute to projects we aren't part of, or to use softw= are we don't use, is unlikely to contribute to helping others discover = free software. Shall we choose to not make that a part of DunLUG culture?</= div><div><br></div><div>One of the great things about free software is that= if you don't like it, the cost of not using or contributing is also fr= ee. There's no need to be rude about, or swear at, projects that you do= n't favour or entire groups of people (flesh or straw).</div></div><div= ><br><div>On 2 April 2016 at 09:46, Kathinka <span><<a href=3D"mailto:ka= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">kathinka.dunediensis@gmail.= com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-= left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:georgi= a,serif">By golly Reece, it's a much wider issue than mere preference!= =C2=A0 Thank you for pointing that out</div><div style=3D"font-family:georg= ia,serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Where there ha= s been a choice of how to display I have always chosen text, or icon + text= . =C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div style= =3D"font-family:georgia,serif">It was IMO a mistake to go one size fits all= .=C2=A0 Sure enough a phone can't be made for touch-typing, and one wou= ldn't want to carry a mouse around to use with the smart phone.=C2=A0 N= ot however a good reason for downgrading tablets and PCs to match.=C2=A0 Ha= ving one multipurpose "button" (e.g. touchpad) looks clean, strea= mlined therefore efficient. But to me it's like having only one sharp k= nife in a kitchen, the right size for some tasks, awkward and inefficient f= or others.</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div style=3D"font-family:geo= rgia,serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka. = =C2=A0</div></font></span></div><div><br><div><div><div>On 2 April 2016 at = 09:26, Reece Arnott <span><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" tar= get=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div>= <blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l= eft:1ex"><div><div> <div> <div>Short answer: yes.<br> Slightly longer answer: (my impression is) Canonical started moving in this direction as they saw touch interfaces were going to be a thing but they still wanted to users to have a similar experience even if they didn't have a touch device. These tablets (and to a more limited extent the smart-phone I linked to) are really the first test of whether this sort of approach will actually work out.<br> <br> Similar sorts of experiments happened as the mouse became popular to transition from pure keyboard driven interfaces.<br> <br> What I think is really going to be interesting though is how the minorities are accounted for, eg. I have a friend who had his fingers burnt/melted in a fire and doesn't have a single whole one left. How is that going to be accommodated? Not to mention the obvious problem how the blind are to use such an interface.<span><br> <br> On 01/04/16 17:03, Kathinka wrote:<br> </span></div><span> <blockquote> <div> <div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Is that Ubuntu the new (well, not really new now but I've avoided it) GUI all pictures and scratch'n'sniff?</div> <div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">I'm =C2=A0very non-visual and find icons a pita, have to mentally translate them into words every time, much prefer menus etc in words so as to save time for getting on with whatever I want to use the tool for.=C2=A0 Tough shit if this upsets designer types who want to impose their post-verbal art-ahead-of-communication passion on us without providing an easy switch on/off to accommodate language people as well as pix-ies.</div> </div> <div><br> <div>On 30 March 2016 at 18:56, Reece Arnott <span><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">reece= [email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l= eft:1ex">Pre-notice notice: I just realised an hour ago that all the DunLUG messages for at least the last month have ended up in Gmail's spam filter. If you get this then you won't be affected but feel free to pass the message on.<br> <br> Two 10.1 inch tablets that come with the mobile version of Ubuntu are available for pre-order.<br> <a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/" target=3D"_blank">https= ://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/</a><br> See <a href=3D"http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features</a> for some details.<br> <br> There is also a 5 inch smartphone at the same store that has a significantly higher resolution camera for 200 euros: <a href=3D"https://= store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"https:= //store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/" target=3D"_blank">https://store.bq.co= m/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/</a><br> <br> All say they come with Ubuntu 15.04.<br> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> </span><span><pre>--=20 "Believing men would act in their own interest was not cynicism, it tu= rned out, but sheerest optimism; in reality men do not meet so high a stand= ard." -- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (Chapter 84) <a href=3D"http://hpmor.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://hpmor.com/</a> Reece Arnott Dunedin New Zealand </pre> </span></div> <br></div></div><span>_______________________________________________<br> DunLUG mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DunLUG@lists= .ethernal.org</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br> DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/" target=3D"_blank">= http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</a><br></span></blockquote></div><br></div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> DunLUG mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DunLUG@lists= .ethernal.org</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br> DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/" target=3D"_blank">= http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div> </div>_______________________________________________<br>DunLUG mailing lis= t<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DunLUG@= lists.ethernal.org</a><br><a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dun= lug" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br>Dun= LUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</a></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_________= ______________________________________<br> DunLUG mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><= br> <a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br> DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank">http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</a><br></blockquote></div= ><br></div> --001a1140f582e17980052f799699-- --===============2992575415832125126== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KRHVuTFVHIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdApEdW5MVUdAbGlzdHMuZXRoZXJuYWwub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5ldGhlcm5h bC5vcmcvbGlzdGluZm8vZHVubHVnCkR1bkxVRyBXaWtpIC0gaHR0cDovL2R1bmx1Zy5rYWxsaXN0 aS5uZXQubnov --===============2992575415832125126==--