Re: Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablets
Martin Kean <[email protected]> Sat, 2 Apr 2016 06:01:39 +0000
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--===============5375293971363287633== Content-Language: en-NZ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_TY1PR06MB076754E77DDF7F635D73F99A959B0TY1PR06MB0767apcp_" --_000_TY1PR06MB076754E77DDF7F635D73F99A959B0TY1PR06MB0767apcp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I see you have used my private reply to you in a post, without credit: "You obviously have no idea about what level-headed designers actually do. = Design is all about communication ahead of anything else..." I fear, Kathinka, that your understanding about some things, like level-hea= dedness, is dissimilar to anyone else's. I see now that your first unthinking rant was only meant to provoke. Martin ________________________________ From: DunLUG <[email protected]> on behalf of Kathinka <kat= [email protected]> Sent: Saturday, 2 April 2016 6:07 p.m. To: DunLUG Subject: Re: [dunlug] Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablets I'm not hostile about the choices of others, I'm brassed off that the choic= e I used to have and the type of mind (words not pictures, typing not prodd= ing and stroking) some of us have plus the disabilities Reece mentioned, i= s ignored, disrespected. Choose to work on whatever project they want - go= ahead and good luck to you. But please don't whimper when other people ex= press their own difficulties with something you or anyone else has created.= They create and it's my duty to dance the happy dance, or remain silent a= bout the way they have changed things so as to make my life more difficult,= is that the rule now? Just as well it doesn't apply to musicians, cabinetmakers and choreographer= s. I guess they are insensitive thick skinned types, or perhaps they (a) l= earn from public's feedback or (b) shrug it off because they are confident = that in their work they achieved what they intended, to the standard they a= re satisfied with, no matter what anyone else says - reaction dependent on = whether they think the feedback is worth taking notice of or not. Compare and contrast: "You obviously have no idea about what level-headed d= esigners actually do. Design is all about communication ahead of anything e= lse...". Communication meaning "we 'communicate', you adapt to our 'langua= ge' i.e. our form of communication or disappear, t.i.n.a." Because if you = don't it proves you "have no idea" and by implication have no right to expr= ess your opinions - right? Kathinka. On 2 April 2016 at 16:04, Chris Burgess <[email protected]<mailto:chri= [email protected]>> wrote: I joined this list because I've enjoyed using Linux for many years, and I b= elieve in the community & ideals of free software. Being hostile about the choices of others, including their decisions to con= tribute to projects we aren't part of, or to use software we don't use, is = unlikely to contribute to helping others discover free software. Shall we c= hoose to not make that a part of DunLUG culture? One of the great things about free software is that if you don't like it, t= he cost of not using or contributing is also free. There's no need to be ru= de about, or swear at, projects that you don't favour or entire groups of p= eople (flesh or straw). On 2 April 2016 at 09:46, Kathinka <[email protected]<mailto:k= [email protected]>> wrote: By golly Reece, it's a much wider issue than mere preference! Thank you fo= r pointing that out Where there has been a choice of how to display I have always chosen text, = or icon + text. It was IMO a mistake to go one size fits all. Sure enough a phone can't be= made for touch-typing, and one wouldn't want to carry a mouse around to us= e with the smart phone. Not however a good reason for downgrading tablets = and PCs to match. Having one multipurpose "button" (e.g. touchpad) looks c= lean, streamlined therefore efficient. But to me it's like having only one = sharp knife in a kitchen, the right size for some tasks, awkward and ineffi= cient for others. Kathinka. On 2 April 2016 at 09:26, Reece Arnott <[email protected]<mailto:reece= [email protected]>> wrote: Short answer: yes. Slightly longer answer: (my impression is) Canonical started moving in this= direction as they saw touch interfaces were going to be a thing but they s= till wanted to users to have a similar experience even if they didn't have = a touch device. These tablets (and to a more limited extent the smart-phone= I linked to) are really the first test of whether this sort of approach wi= ll actually work out. Similar sorts of experiments happened as the mouse became popular to transi= tion from pure keyboard driven interfaces. What I think is really going to be interesting though is how the minorities= are accounted for, eg. I have a friend who had his fingers burnt/melted in= a fire and doesn't have a single whole one left. How is that going to be a= ccommodated? Not to mention the obvious problem how the blind are to use su= ch an interface. On 01/04/16 17:03, Kathinka wrote: Is that Ubuntu the new (well, not really new now but I've avoided it) GUI a= ll pictures and scratch'n'sniff? I'm very non-visual and find icons a pita, have to mentally translate them= into words every time, much prefer menus etc in words so as to save time f= or getting on with whatever I want to use the tool for. Tough shit if this= upsets designer types who want to impose their post-verbal art-ahead-of-co= mmunication passion on us without providing an easy switch on/off to accomm= odate language people as well as pix-ies. On 30 March 2016 at 18:56, Reece Arnott <[email protected]<mailto:reec= [email protected]>> wrote: Pre-notice notice: I just realised an hour ago that all the DunLUG messages= for at least the last month have ended up in Gmail's spam filter. If you g= et this then you won't be affected but feel free to pass the message on. Two 10.1 inch tablets that come with the mobile version of Ubuntu are avail= able for pre-order. https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/ See http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features for some details. There is also a 5 inch smartphone at the same store that has a significantl= y higher resolution camera for 200 euros: <https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-e= dition-e5/> https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/ All say they come with Ubuntu 15.04. -- "Believing men would act in their own interest was not cynicism, it turned = out, but sheerest optimism; in reality men do not meet so high a standard." -- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (Chapter 84) http://hpmor.com/ Reece Arnott Dunedin New Zealand _______________________________________________ DunLUG mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/ _______________________________________________ DunLUG mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/ --_000_TY1PR06MB076754E77DDF7F635D73F99A959B0TY1PR06MB0767apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi= n-bottom:0;} --></style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;back= ground-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"> <p>I see you have used my private reply to you in a post, without cred= it:</p> <p><br> </p> <p><span style=3D"font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 16px;">"You = obviously have no idea about what level-headed designers actually do. Desig= n is all about communication ahead of anything else..."</span><br> </p> <p><br> </p> <p></p> <div>I fear, Kathinka, that your understanding about some things, like leve= l-headedness, is dissimilar to anyone else's.</div> <div>I see now that your first unthinking rant was only meant to provoke.</= div> <div><br> </div> <div>Martin</div> <p></p> <br> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co= lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> DunLUG <dunlug-bou= [email protected]> on behalf of Kathinka <kathinka.dunediensis@= gmail.com><br> <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 2 April 2016 6:07 p.m.<br> <b>To:</b> DunLUG<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [dunlug] Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablet= s</font> <div> </div> </div> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">I'm not ho= stile about the choices of others, I'm brassed off that the choice I used t= o have and the type of mind (words not pictures, typing not prodding and st= roking) some of us have plus the disabilities Reece mentioned, is ignored, disrespected. Choose to work on whateve= r project they want - go ahead and good luck to you. But please don't= whimper when other people express their own difficulties with something yo= u or anyone else has created. They create and it's my duty to dance the happy dance, or remain silent about the way = they have changed things so as to make my life more difficult, is that the = rule now? </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Just as we= ll it doesn't apply to musicians, cabinetmakers and choreographers. I guess= they are insensitive thick skinned types, or perhaps they (a) learn = from public's feedback or (b) shrug it off because they are confident that in their work they achieved what they inte= nded, to the standard they are satisfied with, no matter what anyone else s= ays - reaction dependent on whether they think the feedback is worth taking= notice of or not.</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Compare an= d contrast: "You obviously have no idea about what level-headed design= ers actually do. Design is all about communication ahead of anything else..= .". Communication meaning "we 'communicate', you adapt to our 'language' i.e. our form of communication or disappear, t= .i.n.a." Because if you don't it proves you "have no idea&q= uot; and by implication have no right to express your opinions - right?</di= v> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka.<= /div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 April 2016 at 16:04, Chris Burgess <span di= r=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">chris@giant= robot.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1= px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div>I joined this list because I've enjoyed using Linux for many years, an= d I believe in the community & ideals of free software.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Being hostile about the choices of others, including their decisions t= o contribute to projects we aren't part of, or to use software we don't use= , is unlikely to contribute to helping others discover free software. Shall= we choose to not make that a part of DunLUG culture?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>One of the great things about free software is that if you don't like = it, the cost of not using or contributing is also free. There's no need to = be rude about, or swear at, projects that you don't favour or entire groups= of people (flesh or straw).</div> </div> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"> <div class=3D"h5"> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 April 2016 at 09:46, Kathinka <span dir=3D"= ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank= ">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1= px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">By golly R= eece, it's a much wider issue than mere preference! Thank you for poi= nting that out</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Where ther= e has been a choice of how to display I have always chosen text, or icon &#= 43; text. </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">It was IMO= a mistake to go one size fits all. Sure enough a phone can't be made= for touch-typing, and one wouldn't want to carry a mouse around to use wit= h the smart phone. Not however a good reason for downgrading tablets and PCs to match. Having one multipurpose &q= uot;button" (e.g. touchpad) looks clean, streamlined therefore efficie= nt. But to me it's like having only one sharp knife in a kitchen, the right= size for some tasks, awkward and inefficient for others.</div> <span><font color=3D"#888888"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka. = </div> </font></span></div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div> <div>On 2 April 2016 at 09:26, Reece Arnott <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]= </a>></span> wrote:<br> </div> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1= px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div> <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> <div>Short answer: yes.<br> Slightly longer answer: (my impression is) Canonical started moving in this= direction as they saw touch interfaces were going to be a thing but they s= till wanted to users to have a similar experience even if they didn't have = a touch device. These tablets (and to a more limited extent the smart-phone I linked to) are really the first= test of whether this sort of approach will actually work out.<br> <br> Similar sorts of experiments happened as the mouse became popular to transi= tion from pure keyboard driven interfaces.<br> <br> What I think is really going to be interesting though is how the minorities= are accounted for, eg. I have a friend who had his fingers burnt/melted in= a fire and doesn't have a single whole one left. How is that going to be a= ccommodated? Not to mention the obvious problem how the blind are to use such an interface.<span><br> <br> On 01/04/16 17:03, Kathinka wrote:<br> </span></div> <span> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Is that Ub= untu the new (well, not really new now but I've avoided it) GUI all picture= s and scratch'n'sniff?</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">I'm = very non-visual and find icons a pita, have to mentally translate them into= words every time, much prefer menus etc in words so as to save time for ge= tting on with whatever I want to use the tool for. Tough shit if this upsets designer types who want to impos= e their post-verbal art-ahead-of-communication passion on us without provid= ing an easy switch on/off to accommodate language people as well as pix-ies= .</div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 30 March 2016 at 18:56, Reece Arnott <span di= r=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">reece.arnot= [email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1= px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex"> Pre-notice notice: I just realised an hour ago that all the DunLUG messages= for at least the last month have ended up in Gmail's spam filter. If you g= et this then you won't be affected but feel free to pass the message on.<br= > <br> Two 10.1 inch tablets that come with the mobile version of Ubuntu are avail= able for pre-order.<br> <a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ= et=3D"_blank">https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/</a><br> See <a href=3D"http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank"> http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features</a> for some details.<br> <br> There is also a 5 inch smartphone at the same store that has a significantl= y higher resolution camera for 200 euros: <a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/" rel=3D"noreferrer" t= arget=3D"_blank"> </a><a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/" target=3D"_blank= ">https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/</a><br> <br> All say they come with Ubuntu 15.04.<br> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> </span><span> <pre cols=3D"72">-- =0A= "Believing men would act in their own interest was not cynicism, it tu= rned out, but sheerest optimism; in reality men do not meet so high a stand= ard."=0A= -- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (Chapter 84)=0A= <a href=3D"http://hpmor.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://hpmor.com/</a>=0A= =0A= Reece Arnott=0A= Dunedin=0A= New Zealand=0A= </pre> </span></div> <br> </div> </div> <span>_______________________________________________<br> DunLUG mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DunLUG@lists= .ethernal.org</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br> DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank"> http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</a><br> </span></blockquote> </div> <br> </div> <br> _______________________________________________<br> DunLUG mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DunLUG@lists= .ethernal.org</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br> DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank"> http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</a><br> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_TY1PR06MB076754E77DDF7F635D73F99A959B0TY1PR06MB0767apcp_-- --===============5375293971363287633== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KRHVuTFVHIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdApEdW5MVUdAbGlzdHMuZXRoZXJuYWwub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5ldGhlcm5h bC5vcmcvbGlzdGluZm8vZHVubHVnCkR1bkxVRyBXaWtpIC0gaHR0cDovL2R1bmx1Zy5rYWxsaXN0 aS5uZXQubnov --===============5375293971363287633==--