Re: Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablets
Kathinka <[email protected]> Sat, 2 Apr 2016 19:17:56 +1300
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.user-groups.linux.dunedin.general |
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--===============6664209817289028787== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114788703bb22c052f7a77d8 --001a114788703bb22c052f7a77d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sorry, Martin Kean, about unacknowledged quote, I assumed it was in the thread and lower down the post so would be obvious. My error. Profound - nay, grovelling - apologies. I didn't mean to cause you further trauma. By the way I'm hugely impressed that you yourself are certain about everyone else's understanding of the meaning of the term "level headed". There's a lot to be said for a good education. And I see now that your first response was also meant to provoke. So as long as we believe those explanations we can both be happy, even a little smug. Feels good eh. Kathinka On 2 April 2016 at 19:01, Martin Kean <[email protected]> wrote: > I see you have used my private reply to you in a post, without credit: > > > "You obviously have no idea about what level-headed designers actually do. > Design is all about communication ahead of anything else..." > > > I fear, Kathinka, that your understanding about some things, like > level-headedness, is dissimilar to anyone else's. > I see now that your first unthinking rant was only meant to provoke. > > Martin > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* DunLUG <[email protected]> on behalf of Kathinka < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Saturday, 2 April 2016 6:07 p.m. > *To:* DunLUG > *Subject:* Re: [dunlug] Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablets > > I'm not hostile about the choices of others, I'm brassed off that the > choice I used to have and the type of mind (words not pictures, typing not > prodding and stroking) some of us have plus the disabilities Reece > mentioned, is ignored, disrespected. Choose to work on whatever project > they want - go ahead and good luck to you. But please don't whimper when > other people express their own difficulties with something you or anyone > else has created. They create and it's my duty to dance the happy dance, > or remain silent about the way they have changed things so as to make my > life more difficult, is that the rule now? > Just as well it doesn't apply to musicians, cabinetmakers and > choreographers. I guess they are insensitive thick skinned types, or > perhaps they (a) learn from public's feedback or (b) shrug it off because > they are confident that in their work they achieved what they intended, to > the standard they are satisfied with, no matter what anyone else says - > reaction dependent on whether they think the feedback is worth taking > notice of or not. > > Compare and contrast: "You obviously have no idea about what level-headed > designers actually do. Design is all about communication ahead of anything > else...". Communication meaning "we 'communicate', you adapt to our > 'language' i.e. our form of communication or disappear, t.i.n.a." Because > if you don't it proves you "have no idea" and by implication have no right > to express your opinions - right? > > Kathinka. > > On 2 April 2016 at 16:04, Chris Burgess <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I joined this list because I've enjoyed using Linux for many years, and I >> believe in the community & ideals of free software. >> >> Being hostile about the choices of others, including their decisions to >> contribute to projects we aren't part of, or to use software we don't use, >> is unlikely to contribute to helping others discover free software. Shall >> we choose to not make that a part of DunLUG culture? >> >> One of the great things about free software is that if you don't like it, >> the cost of not using or contributing is also free. There's no need to be >> rude about, or swear at, projects that you don't favour or entire groups of >> people (flesh or straw). >> >> On 2 April 2016 at 09:46, Kathinka <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> By golly Reece, it's a much wider issue than mere preference! Thank you >>> for pointing that out >>> >>> Where there has been a choice of how to display I have always chosen >>> text, or icon + text. >>> >>> It was IMO a mistake to go one size fits all. Sure enough a phone can't >>> be made for touch-typing, and one wouldn't want to carry a mouse around to >>> use with the smart phone. Not however a good reason for downgrading >>> tablets and PCs to match. Having one multipurpose "button" (e.g. touchpad) >>> looks clean, streamlined therefore efficient. But to me it's like having >>> only one sharp knife in a kitchen, the right size for some tasks, awkward >>> and inefficient for others. >>> >>> Kathinka. >>> >>> On 2 April 2016 at 09:26, Reece Arnott <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Short answer: yes. >>>> Slightly longer answer: (my impression is) Canonical started moving in >>>> this direction as they saw touch interfaces were going to be a thing but >>>> they still wanted to users to have a similar experience even if they didn't >>>> have a touch device. These tablets (and to a more limited extent the >>>> smart-phone I linked to) are really the first test of whether this sort of >>>> approach will actually work out. >>>> >>>> Similar sorts of experiments happened as the mouse became popular to >>>> transition from pure keyboard driven interfaces. >>>> >>>> What I think is really going to be interesting though is how the >>>> minorities are accounted for, eg. I have a friend who had his fingers >>>> burnt/melted in a fire and doesn't have a single whole one left. How is >>>> that going to be accommodated? Not to mention the obvious problem how the >>>> blind are to use such an interface. >>>> >>>> On 01/04/16 17:03, Kathinka wrote: >>>> >>>> Is that Ubuntu the new (well, not really new now but I've avoided it) >>>> GUI all pictures and scratch'n'sniff? >>>> I'm very non-visual and find icons a pita, have to mentally translate >>>> them into words every time, much prefer menus etc in words so as to save >>>> time for getting on with whatever I want to use the tool for. Tough shit >>>> if this upsets designer types who want to impose their post-verbal >>>> art-ahead-of-communication passion on us without providing an easy switch >>>> on/off to accommodate language people as well as pix-ies. >>>> >>>> On 30 March 2016 at 18:56, Reece Arnott <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Pre-notice notice: I just realised an hour ago that all the DunLUG >>>>> messages for at least the last month have ended up in Gmail's spam filter. >>>>> If you get this then you won't be affected but feel free to pass the >>>>> message on. >>>>> >>>>> Two 10.1 inch tablets that come with the mobile version of Ubuntu are >>>>> available for pre-order. >>>>> https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/ >>>>> See http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features for some details. >>>>> >>>>> There is also a 5 inch smartphone at the same store that has a >>>>> significantly higher resolution camera for 200 euros: >>>>> <https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/> >>>>> https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/ >>>>> >>>>> All say they come with Ubuntu 15.04. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "Believing men would act in their own interest was not cynicism, it turned out, but sheerest optimism; in reality men do not meet so high a standard." >>>> -- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (Chapter 84)http://hpmor.com/ >>>> >>>> Reece Arnott >>>> Dunedin >>>> New Zealand >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> DunLUG mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug >>>> DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> DunLUG mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug >>> DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/ >>> >> >> > --001a114788703bb22c052f7a77d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,= serif">Sorry, Martin Kean, =C2=A0about unacknowledged quote, I assumed it w= as in the thread and lower down the post so would be obvious.=C2=A0 My erro= r.=C2=A0 Profound - nay, grovelling - apologies.=C2=A0 I didn't mean to= cause you further trauma.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-= family:georgia,serif">By the way I'm hugely impressed that you yourself= are certain about everyone else's understanding of the meaning of the = term "level headed".=C2=A0 There's a lot to be said for a goo= d =C2=A0education.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:g= eorgia,serif">And I see now that your first response was also meant to prov= oke.=C2=A0 So as long as we believe those explanations we can both be happy= , even a little smug. Feels good eh.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl= e=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl= e=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_ext= ra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 April 2016 at 19:01, Martin Kean <s= pan dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">M= [email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;font-fa= mily:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> <p>I see you have used my private reply to you=C2=A0in a post, without cred= it:</p><span class=3D""> <p><br> </p> <p><span style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:16px">"You obvio= usly have no idea about what level-headed designers actually do. Design is = all about communication ahead of anything else..."</span><br> </p> <p><br> </p> <p></p> </span><div>I fear, Kathinka, that your understanding about some things, li= ke level-headedness, is dissimilar to anyone else's.</div> <div>I see now that your first unthinking rant was only meant to provoke.</= div> <div><br> </div> <div>Martin</div> <p></p> <br> <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style= =3D"font-size:11pt"><span class=3D""><b>From:</b> DunLUG <<a href=3D"mai= lto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">dunlug-bounces@lis= ts.ethernal.org</a>> on behalf of Kathinka <<a href=3D"mailto:kathink= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</= a>><br> </span><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 2 April 2016 6:07 p.m.<br> <b>To:</b> DunLUG<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [dunlug] Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablet= s</font> <div>=C2=A0</div> </div><div><div class=3D"h5"> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">I'm no= t hostile about the choices of others, I'm brassed off that the choice = I used to have and the type of mind (words not pictures, typing not proddin= g and stroking) =C2=A0some of us have plus the disabilities Reece mentioned, is ignored, disrespected.=C2=A0 Choose to work on whateve= r project they want - go ahead and good luck to you.=C2=A0 But please don&#= 39;t whimper when other people express their own difficulties with somethin= g you or anyone else has created.=C2=A0 They create and it's my duty to dance the happy dance, or remain silent about the = way they have changed things so as to make my life more difficult, is that = the rule now? =C2=A0</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Just as we= ll it doesn't apply to musicians, cabinetmakers and choreographers. I g= uess they are =C2=A0insensitive thick skinned types, or perhaps they (a) le= arn from public's feedback or (b) shrug it off because they are confident that in their work they achieved what they inte= nded, to the standard they are satisfied with, no matter what anyone else s= ays - reaction dependent on whether they think the feedback is worth taking= notice of or not.</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Compare an= d contrast: "You obviously have no idea about what level-headed design= ers actually do. Design is all about communication ahead of anything else..= .".=C2=A0 Communication meaning "we 'communicate', you adapt to our 'language' i.e. our form of communication or disa= ppear, t.i.n.a." =C2=A0Because if you don't it proves you "ha= ve no idea" and by implication have no right to express your opinions = - right?</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka.<= /div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 April 2016 at 16:04, Chris Burgess <span di= r=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">chris@giant= robot.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div>I joined this list because I've enjoyed using Linux for many years= , and I believe in the community & ideals of free software.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Being hostile about the choices of others, including their decisions t= o contribute to projects we aren't part of, or to use software we don&#= 39;t use, is unlikely to contribute to helping others discover free softwar= e. Shall we choose to not make that a part of DunLUG culture?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>One of the great things about free software is that if you don't l= ike it, the cost of not using or contributing is also free. There's no = need to be rude about, or swear at, projects that you don't favour or e= ntire groups of people (flesh or straw).</div> </div> <div> <div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 April 2016 at 09:46, Kathinka <span dir=3D"= ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank= ">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">By golly R= eece, it's a much wider issue than mere preference!=C2=A0 Thank you for= pointing that out</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Where ther= e has been a choice of how to display I have always chosen text, or icon + = text. =C2=A0</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">It was IMO= a mistake to go one size fits all.=C2=A0 Sure enough a phone can't be = made for touch-typing, and one wouldn't want to carry a mouse around to= use with the smart phone.=C2=A0 Not however a good reason for downgrading tablets and PCs to match.=C2=A0 Having one multipurpose &q= uot;button" (e.g. touchpad) looks clean, streamlined therefore efficie= nt. But to me it's like having only one sharp knife in a kitchen, the r= ight size for some tasks, awkward and inefficient for others.</div> <span><font color=3D"#888888"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka. = =C2=A0</div> </font></span></div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div> <div>On 2 April 2016 at 09:26, Reece Arnott <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]= </a>></span> wrote:<br> </div> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div> <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> <div>Short answer: yes.<br> Slightly longer answer: (my impression is) Canonical started moving in this= direction as they saw touch interfaces were going to be a thing but they s= till wanted to users to have a similar experience even if they didn't h= ave a touch device. These tablets (and to a more limited extent the smart-phone I linked to) are really the first= test of whether this sort of approach will actually work out.<br> <br> Similar sorts of experiments happened as the mouse became popular to transi= tion from pure keyboard driven interfaces.<br> <br> What I think is really going to be interesting though is how the minorities= are accounted for, eg. I have a friend who had his fingers burnt/melted in= a fire and doesn't have a single whole one left. How is that going to = be accommodated? Not to mention the obvious problem how the blind are to use such an interface.<span><br> <br> On 01/04/16 17:03, Kathinka wrote:<br> </span></div> <span> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Is that Ub= untu the new (well, not really new now but I've avoided it) GUI all pic= tures and scratch'n'sniff?</div> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">I'm = =C2=A0very non-visual and find icons a pita, have to mentally translate the= m into words every time, much prefer menus etc in words so as to save time = for getting on with whatever I want to use the tool for.=C2=A0 Tough shit if this upsets designer types who want to impos= e their post-verbal art-ahead-of-communication passion on us without provid= ing an easy switch on/off to accommodate language people as well as pix-ies= .</div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 30 March 2016 at 18:56, Reece Arnott <span di= r=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">reece.arnot= [email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Pre-notice notice: I just realised an hour ago that all the DunLUG messages= for at least the last month have ended up in Gmail's spam filter. If y= ou get this then you won't be affected but feel free to pass the messag= e on.<br> <br> Two 10.1 inch tablets that come with the mobile version of Ubuntu are avail= able for pre-order.<br> <a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ= et=3D"_blank">https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/</a><br> See <a href=3D"http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank"> http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features</a> for some details.<br> <br> There is also a 5 inch smartphone at the same store that has a significantl= y higher resolution camera for 200 euros: <a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/" rel=3D"noreferrer" t= arget=3D"_blank"> </a><a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/" target=3D"_blank= ">https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/</a><br> <br> All say they come with Ubuntu 15.04.<br> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> </span><span> <pre cols=3D"72">--=20 "Believing men would act in their own interest was not cynicism, it tu= rned out, but sheerest optimism; in reality men do not meet so high a stand= ard." -- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (Chapter 84) <a href=3D"http://hpmor.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://hpmor.com/</a> Reece Arnott Dunedin New Zealand </pre> </span></div> <br> </div> </div> <span>_______________________________________________<br> DunLUG mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DunLUG@lists= .ethernal.org</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br> DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank"> http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</a><br> </span></blockquote> </div> <br> </div> <br> _______________________________________________<br> DunLUG mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DunLUG@lists= .ethernal.org</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br> DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank"> http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</a><br> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div></div></div> </div> </div> </blockquote></div><br></div> --001a114788703bb22c052f7a77d8-- --===============6664209817289028787== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KRHVuTFVHIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdApEdW5MVUdAbGlzdHMuZXRoZXJuYWwub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5ldGhlcm5h bC5vcmcvbGlzdGluZm8vZHVubHVnCkR1bkxVRyBXaWtpIC0gaHR0cDovL2R1bmx1Zy5rYWxsaXN0 aS5uZXQubnov --===============6664209817289028787==--