Re: Expectations for a performa (was [tech]Re: gcc 3.x with Openbsd src tree)

> Joel Rees wrote:
> > 
> > > (watching a mac68k build go...  So far, kicked a network cable out
> > > once two days into it (choke! die!) and forgot one thing from
> > > upgrade-minifaq.  *sigh*)
> > 
> > Thanks for the warning, Nick. Which CPU/speed is it?
> 
> That is a Quadra 610, 68040/25MHz, 56M RAM, 2G 3600rpm drive.
> My Quadra 650 is a 68040/33MHz 72M RAM 4G 5400rpm drive.

Hmm. Maybe I should seriously consider getting a full '040 for my
performa 630, after all.

> I have a 7200rpm 4G drive to put in one of them when I get a round
> tuit.

I need a few of those, myself.

> > I've been thinking of toying with openBSD/68k on a performa 550 (33MHz,
> > 20MB, 160M internal HD, 2G external HD, no FPU). 
> 
> For reference, the Performa 550 is a 68030...

Yep. I forget to mention that, alrighty.

> The internal HD is not going to be useful.

I was kind of expecting that. Had initially thought to try putting root
and some swap on it, but I've been reading about the internal drives.

> Unfortunately,
> mac68k/OpenBSD seems to have problems with multiple HDs (macOS on the
> small drive and OpenBSD on the external *might* work, I don't recall
> if I have tried it).

Hmm. Are you saying I should go looking for a 2G raw drive I can replace
the internal drive with, or are you suggesting I may end up pulling the
internal drive altogether?

> OpenBSD/mac68k is reported to require the FPU.  My testing sometime
> back indicated this was true only for INSTALL -- the installer choked
> on my LCIII (no FPU) with a cryptic error message, but if I installed
> on the Quadra 610 then moved the HD to the LCIII, it worked fine. 

Ouch.

> Past tense, however -- some time back, newer versions of OpenBSD quit
> working on the LCIII and my IIsi (which I *do* have a FPU in (add-on
> on the NIC).

Ouch, twice. So, I'm probably looking at needing to pick up a 68882 on
eBay?

> You don't indicate what if any ethernet card you have -- you may also
> have trouble with that...

Yeah, I don't have one for it. I have a card in my p630, but it is not
on the list of supported cards, IIRC. I dropped it into the p550 while I
was playing with netBSD, and netBSD sensed and identified it, but I
couldn't get netBSD up far enough to try talking to it.

> So, potential problem points: 
> * performance
> * no FPU
> * May not work anyway on your system (or may work fine)
> * Network adapter.
> 
> > How long can I expect
> > it to take to get up on such a box, if at all? 
> 
> Days. 8)
> (if at all)

Great. Thanks for the warning.

>  
> The key with Mac68k is have other things to do... You start something,
> walk away, do something else, come back, start the next step, walk
> away, do something else...  This results in not overly disrupting your
> life, but it may take days to get the machine loaded and
> configured...and a pad of paper to write down where you currently are
> in the process is probably not a bad thing. 8)

And here I was feeling a such a loss of self-esteem because netBSD took
so much time. 8-p

> I tend to do things on a twice-a-day system with the Mac68k's -- check
> on 'em in the morning and again in the evening to see if they are
> ready for the next step.  My building scripts include e-mailing me
> when the job is done (and when the job began, so I can make sure when
> I tell war stories that I have my facts right. 8)

Good idea. Too bad that won't work before I get the system up and
running the first time. Or are you talking about Applescripting the mail? 8-))

> > I'd probably have to do
> > something like use my iBook to drop the tarball onto the HD to load it.
> 
> SCSI on your iBook? 

USB to SCSI adaptor. Haven't bought it yet, partly because I'm aware
it's a bit of a gamble, even under Mac OS X. I'd better make sure that
one at least really does work with Mac OS X.

> If you can do it, yes -- I used a old PowerPC
> machine to set up HDs for my LCIII before I got the (cd booting)
> Quadras.

From recent threads, I assume you mean setting up the file system and
unpacking the tarballs? No cross-compiling, right? 

Do you think that would be possible to do the work from Mac OS X? Maybe
using the old utilities under Sys 7.5 to label the openBSD partitions
and then trying to access them from Mac OS X? I've been kind of hoping
that might work, because my iBook just barely has enough room for Mac OS
X. If I could afford another iBook this would would be perfect to put
openBSD on, but my wife would not want to use the command-line mail.

> Your machine has a CDROM, so that's an option. 

No burner. Drat.

> On my early installs,
> I loaded a 100M MacOS partition, loaded an FTP client and retrieved
> the tar files there...

That's one of the things I was thinking of, if I get an ethernet card.

> > Am I looking at too much work?
> 
> i386 is certainly easier...but working on different HW is fun, too. 
> (hair is really overrated 8-)

Heh. I'm missing most of mine, anyway.

Well that confirms what I pretty much expected after playing with netBSD.
I need to move ahead faster than that. I guess I'd do better to go get a
used G3 or go to the DIY and put together an i386 box to learn on, and
play with these performas when I know a bit more about what I'm doing.

Thanks.

-- 
Joel Rees <[email protected]>