Re: genoa protests

>>>>> "jane" == jane craig <[email protected]> writes:

  jane> that fire extinguisher may have been an incendiery device.
  jane> who knows?!?  

It looked like an ordinary fire extinguisher. I don't dispute that
getting hit with a fire extinguisher is scary and dangerous. I do
however wonder whether it was 1) deadly force, 2) put the cop, inside
the vehicle, in imminent danger of losing his life, 3) in reaction to
something the police had been doing that wasn't caught on film.

	but even if it was not, an officer in that
  jane> circumstance or anyone for that matter could arrive at that
  jane> conclusion, quite reasonably, because many neighborhoods were
  jane> burning, clashes with police had already occured and besides
  jane> even before seattle those same groups had promised (not ad
  jane> hoc) violence on no small scale.  

Again, you make claims with no evidence. Please provide the evidence
for your claim that "those same groups had promised (not ad hoc)
violence on no small scale". Otherwise, you're just making shit up.

	by the way, what about the
  jane> people who live in those neighborhoods that were set ablaze
  jane> and destroyed by those you support?!?  

I saw some burned vehicles. I didn't see any neighborhoods
destroyed. And I haven't once defended burning a vehicle or destroying
a neighborhood. But I will not simply assume that the cops didn't
provoke lots of the damage, because I've *seen* them do that in other
places.

	no words of apology
  jane> from the ones that created hardship and misery by burning
  jane> stores, cars and property not their own?!?  

Please provide evidence for your claim that stores were burned.

	when your comrades
  jane> have moved on to visit pain and suffering on innocents in a
  jane> different country, what of those left to pick up the pieces??

  jane> kendall, i don't wish you illwill.  if you require an
  jane> explanation, then i will oblige.  my words indicated a hope
  jane> for you to attack a police vehicle.  never did i wish or
  jane> express a hope for your death.  

It was clear what you meant and that it was a nasty and hateful thing
to say. Why back away from it?

	i'm merely trying to express
  jane> the absurdity that i see in your argument by being absurd.  

Ah, so to "express the absurdity [you] see in [my] argument" you hope
that I will violently attack a police vehicle? Sorry, but that makes
very little sense.

	i
  jane> hope now you understand.  the same can be said for the "hero"
  jane> remarks.  i deliberately mentioned leftists in order to gauge
  jane> your reaction.  now, i will tell you categorically, that none
  jane> of those murderers you've mentioned ie, hitler, pinochet, et
  jane> al ( you've forgotten marcos) are my heroes and there is
  jane> NOTHING about their politics to be admired or revered.  they
  jane> also were serial killers that murdered their way to positions
  jane> of power, nothing more.  can you categorically make the same
  jane> statement of condemnation that i've made re:  stalin, mao,et
  jane> al??  and will you?!?

I've never written a single word in support of *any* mass-murderer,
whether on the left or right. Your assumption that I have done or do
otherwise says more about *you* than about me.

  jane> i am not angered or enraged by your propaganda.  mostly, i'm
  jane> humored by it and, quite frankly, i laugh at what i type in my
  jane> attempts to express absurdity.  but, i also get the feeling
  jane> that you are all too serious when the bottom of your email
  jane> reads:  this machine kills fascists.  what machine?  what
  jane> fascists and am i one??  now, kendall, just who is hoping for
  jane> the death of whom??  

Eh, it's a quote of Woody Guthrie's; he scrawled it on his guitar
during the Depression; the machine was his voice, his guitar, and his
music. I use it to promote the Web magazine I write for. It's called a
metaphor.

  jane> i haven't had discussion #1 with any violent or non-violent
  jane> protesters.  don't want or need to.  

That's interesting and telling, of course. Lumping all the protesters
into one group, which you then freely dump on, all the while boasting
of your ignorance -- you should be very proud!

	parenthetically, does it
  jane> matter that many of the non-violent have expressed outrage at
  jane> the violent and have also disavowed any link to the violent
  jane> protesters, read thugs.  

Yeah, it probably matters, but not in the way that you think.

  jane> honestly, kendall, i do mean respectfully when i say
  jane> "respectfully".  and as for the "sick" comment you made, i
  jane> will admit only to having a "sick" sense of humor.

Respect is easier to say than to do, as you clearly demonstrate.

Kendall Clark