Re: [dinosaur] Hypothetical dinosauroid civilisation

Alaric Shapli <[email protected]> Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:13:02 -0500
Newsgroups gmane.science.dinosaurs.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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I would imagine that a truly advanced civilization would have likely had =
=0D=0Aan impact on earlier parts of the fossil record, as well- they would =
=0D=0Ahave likely done paleontology of their own, shifting earlier remains =
=0D=0Aupwards, and would likely have used up a certain amount of fossil fue=
l =0D=0Areserves. Not sure to what extent any of that would have happened.=
=0D=0A=0D=0AOn 12/30/2019 4:59 PM, Thomas Richard Holtz wrote:=0D=0A> Greet=
ings,=0D=0A>=0D=0A> Exactly the same as we have preserved for Paleolithic h=
umans: stone =0D=0A> and bone tools and artifacts, modified shells and bead=
s, fire pits, =0D=0A> etc. (The chances of finding petroglyphs and cave pai=
ntings would be =0D=0A> slim, since we would need to find actual rock surfa=
ces from that time =0D=0A> period which were subsequently buried.)=0D=0A>=
=0D=0A> A more advanced dinosauroid culture--an actual civilization [that i=
s, =0D=0A> a culture that builds cities]--would have a greater chance of =
=0D=0A> preservation, as the artifacts they make become larger and more =0D=
=0A> preservable. (For example, buildings, roads, metal tools, trash =0D=0A=
> middens, etc.) And even more technologically advanced civilizations =0D=
=0A> might leave behind the remains of plastics, massive erosional surfaces=
 =0D=0A> (i.e., mines and development), landfills, and an isotopic signatur=
e =0D=0A> related to industrial waste products (including greenhouse gases)=
.=0D=0A>=0D=0A> On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 4:52 PM Poekilopleuron =0D=0A> <din=
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:=0D=0A>=0D=
=0A>     Good day to all listmembers, I have an unusual question regarding=
=0D=0A>     hypothetical civilisation of highly intelligent dinosaurs, or=
=0D=0A>     "dinosauroids". Would it be possible for us to find some traces=
 of=0D=0A>     late Cretaceous civilisation similar to - say - human societ=
ies of=0D=0A>     late Pleistocene (late stone age)? What would be its most=
=0D=0A>     remarkable traits (markers) in the fossil record? Thank you for=
=0D=0A>     your thoughts!=0D=0A>=0D=0A>=0D=0A>=0D=0A> -- =0D=0A>=0D=0A> Th=
omas R. Holtz, Jr.=0D=0A> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Phone: 301-405-4084=0D=0A> Pr=
incipal Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology=0D=0A>=0D=0A> Office: Geology 410=
6, 8000 Regents Dr., College Park MD 20742=0D=0A>=0D=0A> Dept. of Geology, =
University of Maryland=0D=0A> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3D=
http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_-7Etholtz_&d=3DDwIDaQ&c=3DclK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5=
BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=3DJMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=3DWx=
dXT9MOYZzjWwF53okdngnBGGBi-XN4H82vIxoic0Q&s=3DI4ap-PTrSNTofxdYYQUSU8TbOUDCY=
VTen5pQ0AL_VyY&e=3D  =0D=0A> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3D=
http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_-7Etholtz_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DclK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5=
BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=3DRy_mO4IFaUmGof_Yl9MyZgecRCKHn5g4z1CYJgFW9SI&m=3DM-=
8JFIle4fI02hvWrF3RZo3YhW6ostVtGbhqdA_QBlc&s=3DD6npjd_vHszLS58bXP_DNyEavN1mf=
oq0IMHCEvtFzww&e=3D>=0D=0A>=0D=0A> Phone: 301-405-6965=0D=0A> Fax: 301-314-=
9661=0D=0A>=0D=0A> Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, Colle=
ge Park Scholars=0D=0A>=0D=0A> Office: Centreville 1216, 4243 Valley Dr., C=
ollege Park MD 20742=0D=0A> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dht=
tp-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_sgc&d=3DDwIDaQ&c=3DclK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H=
8p7CSfnc_gI&r=3DJMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=3DWxdXT9MOYZz=
jWwF53okdngnBGGBi-XN4H82vIxoic0Q&s=3DDXejvMr0t4UMbQlfN_heh0vr7dqmsAixu4b_gm=
TeJOs&e=3D  =0D=0A> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__=
www.geol.umd.edu_sgc&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DclK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfn=
c_gI&r=3DRy_mO4IFaUmGof_Yl9MyZgecRCKHn5g4z1CYJgFW9SI&m=3DM-8JFIle4fI02hvWrF=
3RZo3YhW6ostVtGbhqdA_QBlc&s=3D4kEbxMBhlD8NQZwqotfr_vJeRZ1YRbUyKMChXUhulrQ&e=
=3D>=0D=0A> Fax: 301-314-9843=0D=0A>=0D=0A> Mailing Address:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.=0D=0A> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Department of Geology=0D=0A> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Building 237, Room 1117=0D=
=0A>=0D=0A> 8000 Regents Drive=0D=0A> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 University of Maryland=0D=0A> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 College Park, MD 20742-4211 USA=0D=0A>=0D=0A=

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    <p>I would imagine that a truly advanced civilization would have
      likely had an impact on earlier parts of the fossil record, as
      well- they would have likely done paleontology of their own,
      shifting earlier remains upwards, and would likely have used up a
      certain amount of fossil fuel reserves. Not sure to what extent
      any of that would have happened.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/30/2019 4:59 PM, Thomas Richard
      Holtz wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHQFgpo9db3coAcQ5XfzndL53z5O+Y1meRir_ziFAcM77khBYg@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">Greetings,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Exactly the same as we have preserved for Paleolithic
          humans: stone and bone tools and artifacts, modified shells
          and beads, fire pits, etc. (The chances of finding petroglyphs
          and cave paintings would be slim, since we would need to find
          actual rock surfaces from that time period which were
          subsequently buried.)</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>A more advanced dinosauroid culture--an actual civilization
          [that is, a culture that builds cities]--would have a greater
          chance of preservation, as the artifacts they make become
          larger and more preservable. (For example, buildings, roads,
          metal tools, trash middens, etc.) And even more
          technologically advanced civilizations might leave behind the
          remains of plastics, massive erosional surfaces (i.e., mines
          and development), landfills, and an isotopic signature related
          to industrial waste products (including greenhouse gases).</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 4:52
          PM Poekilopleuron &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email protected]"
            moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Good
          day to all listmembers, I have an unusual question regarding
          hypothetical civilisation of highly intelligent dinosaurs, or
          "dinosauroids". Would it be possible for us to find some
          traces of late Cretaceous civilisation similar to - say -
          human societies of late Pleistocene (late stone age)? What
          would be its most remarkable traits (markers) in the fossil
          record? Thank you for your thoughts!<br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br clear="all">
      <div><br>
      </div>
      -- <br>
      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>
                <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">T</span><span
                    style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="arial,
                      sans-serif">homas R. Holtz, Jr.<br>
                      <font size="2">Email: </font><a
                        href="mailto:[email protected]"
                        style="color:purple" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a><font
                        size="2">         Phone: 301-405-4084</font><br>
                      <font size="2">Principal Lecturer, Vertebrate
                        Paleontology</font></font></span></p>
                <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
                    style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="arial,
                      sans-serif">Office: Geology 4106, 8000 Regents
                      Dr., College Park MD 20742</font></span></p>
                <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
                    style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="arial,
                      sans-serif">Dept. of Geology, University of
                      Maryland<br>
                      <a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_-7Etholtz_&amp;d=DwMFaQ&amp;c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&amp;r=Ry_mO4IFaUmGof_Yl9MyZgecRCKHn5g4z1CYJgFW9SI&amp;m=M-8JFIle4fI02hvWrF3RZo3YhW6ostVtGbhqdA_QBlc&amp;s=D6npjd_vHszLS58bXP_DNyEavN1mfoq0IMHCEvtFzww&amp;e="
                        style="color:purple" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/</a></font></span></p>
                <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
                    style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="arial,
                      sans-serif">Phone: 301-405-6965<br>
                      Fax: 301-314-9661              <br>
                      <br>
                      Faculty Director, Science &amp; Global Change
                      Program, College Park Scholars</font></span></p>
                <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font
                    face="arial, sans-serif"><span
                      style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Office: Centreville
                      1216</span><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">,
                      4243 Valley Dr., College Park MD 20742<br>
                    </span><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_sgc&amp;d=DwMFaQ&amp;c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&amp;r=Ry_mO4IFaUmGof_Yl9MyZgecRCKHn5g4z1CYJgFW9SI&amp;m=M-8JFIle4fI02hvWrF3RZo3YhW6ostVtGbhqdA_QBlc&amp;s=4kEbxMBhlD8NQZwqotfr_vJeRZ1YRbUyKMChXUhulrQ&amp;e="
                        style="color:purple" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.geol.umd.edu/sgc</a><br>
                      Fax: 301-314-9843<br>
                      <br>
                      Mailing Address:        Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.<br>
                                              Department of Geology<br>
                                              Building 237, Room 1117</span></font></p>
                <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
                    style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="arial,
                      sans-serif"><font size="2">                       
                        8000 Regents Drive</font><br>
                      <font size="2">                        University
                        of Maryland</font><br>
                                              College Park, MD
                      20742-4211 USA</font></span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
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